Let's Write a Constitution for a Hypothetical Nation

So, when an organization is being corrupt, and the State decides to go after it, it's the entire machine they have on their back, rather than a few individual dispatched investigators?

If the whole system comes crashing down on the robber barons, then... ouch.

What are your opinions on heavy police visibility?

Enhances an atmosphere of mistrust and fear. No cops mean there is nothing to fear. Most of the times, cops are the thing you fear. Everyone has done something unlawful. No, cops should be invisible, should make themselves rare, should only show up when summoned.

State Security? I like the sound, but having visible cops reminds people that they have to obey rules, generally.

Only in places where they are very likely to misbehave.

See, in Vienna, they don't have doors for the subway. You buy a ticket. The ticket activates as you freely walk in. If you are caught without a ticket, you get up to 3000€ fine. Everyone respects the ticket. Even while there are no guards, and inspections are really rare.

Where I come from, the reputation of Singapore is one of a Police State. To be fair, however, compared to the chaos that seems to be the norm at home, I admire that.

You from Taiwan?

The Philippines, actually.

Oh. Black Lagoon? Mujahedeen?

edited 3rd Dec '10 6:33:32 PM by RawPower

The idiots who still believe in the specter of Marcos, well... Cory's time was way too chaotic according to my mom—I was born during her last months as President. At least during Marcos' time, the country was far more peaceful, and more orderly than this hell we're in now—ESPECIALLY with Cory's kid as the sitting Prez.

[has honestly not even a shred of the remostest idea what you're talkin about][is very curious]

Basically, Cory practically spent her presidency with her head up her ass. Brownouts, coup d'etats, economic nightmares, the return of the oligarchs... I could probably go on, but I'd have to ask my parents since I was only born in '91.

O_o

We have a lot of Filipino's here in Hawai'i. Lots of bumper stickers and flags hanging off of the rear view mirrors and all that. A sizable percentage of my coworkers are either straight from there, or descendants.

edited 4th Dec '10 4:07:16 PM by pvtnum11

Bunp. I'm going to get back to this, really...

ITS'A PINCH!

Articles V and VI as they currently stand. I added a few refinements: there is now a Bureau of Public Infrastructure, and another on Economic Management. Also, the Bureaus have to work closely with the Citizens Council, because the Council can overturn decisions, and they get invited to the debates now. I don't think we have consensus on whether we want to disallow deploying troops overseas, so I haven't changed that.

Finally, how do we bring closure to this project? It's substantially done, or nearly so. After all this effort, I dont just want to walk away and forget about it. What do you guys think we should do with the final result?

Article V: National Security, States of Emergency, and Treason

A. The various governing bodies at each level of government shall establish such military forces as are deemed necessary to provide for the common defense, and to fulfill such international obligations as the national government on behalf of the people shall agree to undertake.

1. Different branches shall be established to administer forces appropriate to the different domains of the national defense- an army for land operations, a navy for sea operations, an air force for operations in the air, and other such branches as seem appropriate.

B. The Legislatures at each level of government shall be responsible for establishing such branches of the military forces as they deem necessary, and possess sole power to approve the funding of such branches. All branches of military forces shall be administered as agencies of the executive branch of the appropriate level of government.

C. The military forces of the national government shall be referred to as the National Military, those of the Regions and Territories as Guards, and of the Localities as Militia.

D. Nothing in this constitution shall be deemed to prevent the governing bodies at the various levels from sharing revenue, personnel, equipment or other resources, or from establishing common standards of performance and procedures. The national level of government shall have sole power to deploy military forces outside of the national boundaries.

E. Military forces shall play no role or official capacity in political activities, or the enforcement of the law within national boundaries. Military agencies may not engage in activities intended to generate profit or private revenue, nor the ownership of private property.

F. Weapons commonly classified as biological, chemical, nuclear, or as weapons of mass destruction shall only be developed, obtained or deployed if approved by the council and ballot system, described in Article I. In any case, the national level of government shall have sole power to seek approval of such weapons.

G. Whether service in the military shall be deemed mandatory for all eligible citizens, or entirely voluntary, or according to some other scheme, shall be decided by the council and ballot system described in Article I. In the case of any conflict, service rendered at a higher level of government shall substitute for that at a lower level.

H. Military forces cannot be deployed outside the country only at the explicit direction of the Head of the National Government, and a decision by a majority of the national legislature approving such deployment. Such forces are to be withdrawn from deployment outside national boundaries at any time by either a decision of the national executive, or a 60% vote of the national legislature, or by the council and ballot process. Military forces are never to be deployed beyond national boundaries except for the purpose of defending innocent people from unlawful attack, or in response to a natural or man-made disaster.

I. Each level of government shall be responsible for organizing such police and security forces as are deemed necessary to ensure public safety and security. Police and security forces are administered as agencies of the executive branch of government. Such forces shall have sole power of arrest within their respective jurisdiction. Police and security forces shall be armed at the discretion of their governing authority. All persons arrested shall be charged with crimes and given to the charge of a prosecuting authority, which shall be executive agencies of government to be administered entirely separate from Police and other security forces. Persons charged with a crime shall be rendered to trail by the appropriate judicial court within a reasonable time as defined by law. All police, security and prosecuting authorities, and their personnel, shall at all times act within the constraints established by law. Police and security forces shall be deployed across jurisdictional boundaries in accordance with appropriate agreements between jurisdictions, and in accordance with regional and national laws. Nothing in this constitution shall be deemed to prevent the governing bodies at the various levels from sharing revenue, personnel, equipment or other resources, or from establishing common standards of performance and procedures.

Article VI

A. The Department of Public Welfare: A Department of Public Welfare shall be established at the national level to provide for the regulation and promotion of certain domains of the public welfare. These domains shall include the following:

1. A Bureau of Public Health and Safety to provide regulation of activities, substances and other such items as may constitute a threat to the health and safety of the general public. Regulations may include, but are not limited to, items such as substances that are proven to be addictive, debilitating or toxic, commercial products that may be used dangerously, weapons, explosives, and public media. Regulations may extend to such requirements as licenses, fees, criteria of ownership, possession or participation as are necessary to minimize the rate of death, injury, debilitation or other dangerous outcomes. Outright banning of such activities, substances or commercial products is to be undertaken only in response to overwhelming evidence of a direct and present danger to the public.

2. A Bureau of Education to provide nationally recognized standards of testing and assessment in schools and educational institutions, such standards to act as the basis of certification and funding through scholarships, grants, loans and other forms of support to individuals and institutions if such support is provided for in the national budget. In addition, to provide recommendations for curriculum, instructional and administrative excellence and to provide such support to institutions attempting to implement these recommendations as is provided for in the national budget.

3. A Bureau of Military Procurement which shall combine the recommendations of the nation’s military commanders with the latest research on technology and intelligence on potentially hostile powers and their capabilities to determine long-term equipment development and deployment programs in the best interest of the nation. The legislature shall determine the military budget as part of the government budgetary process, and the Bureau of Military Procurement shall dispense those funds in accordance with it’s own recommendations.

4. A Bureau of Public Physical and Technical Infrastructure which shall make plans for the long and short term development of means of distributing shared resources, including, but not limited to transportation, communication, energy distribution, and information sharing.

5. A Bureau of Economic Management shall be responsible for setting the interest rate by which the government shall loan money to private banks, the selling and purchasing of government bonds, the amount of currency to distribute, and revenue sharing arrangements between the national, provincial, and local levels of government. Further powers can be conferred upon this Bureau by the legislature.

B. The National Policy Panels: Each of these bureaus shall have a policy panel consisting of experts in that field who shall be empowered to make and implement that bureau’s role and responsibilities, including any rules, regulations or provision of support. Other such bureau’s may be established by the National Citizens’ Council on any public policy issue using the standard consensus and ballot process.

1. The National Citizens’ Council shall charter a National Association of Science and Research for the purpose of establishing and providing institutional support to the scientific and research community within the country. This association shall include as members all citizens who possess the appropriate degree of education and a professional position within the science or research community. The charter is to be considered for renewal every ten years, at which time the charter itself may be revised. This association shall otherwise operate independently of any branch of government.

2. These members shall establish a committee for the purpose of inviting nationally recognized leaders of research or education to serve on one policy panel attached to a bureau of the Department of Public Welfare. The members of each panel shall serve for any number of two years terms, provided they are non-consecutive. The Policy Panels shall review all research relevant to an issue relating to that particular bureau, and using that research, shall have the power to establish standards, regulations, fees, fines, grants, and other such rules, policies, or procedures as are deemed necessary to fulfill the bureau’s responsibilities as set forth herein.

a. The National Legislative Branch shall provide for the funding of the Department of Public Welfare through the standard national budgeting process

b. The number of members of each policy panel shall be determined by the National Executive

c. The National Judiciary shall have the power to overturn or restrict any regulation or ruling by a policy panel if such rule or regulation is found to be in contradiction of a national law or an article of this constitution, consistent with the guidelines specified in article V.A.1.

d. Decisions by the National Citizens Council shall take precedence over those of any Bureau or Policy Panel. The Council shall invite members of the relevant policy panel as non-voting participants to any such debate before a final decision is made.

What is the relation of various Bureaus of X to Ministries of X?

Where do you see "Ministries"?

Here nowhere, and that's what I'm asking about, are these bureaus independent of government? I guess, the answer's yes, eh? I'd be good to do it in some way preventing overgrown bureaucracy.

I believe they're "independent" in the fact that they don't get elected. Otherwise, they presumably get funded by the government.

Uh, yeah. False friends and all that lot. Raw Power mentioned it already, in this thread or another. What I meant was what is their relation to the currently-ruling administration. But as I think of it I guess it is obvious, only I'm stuck at the moment and can't get it. >_<

edited 17th Dec '10 2:34:21 PM by lordGacek

An interesting idea we should cover is how the organizations recruit upper management. If it's just appointment by congress, then it's just going to be whoever agrees with the current majorities goals the most.

Like Deboss said. They're supposed to operate outside the political process to the extent that's possible. They get funded by the government, but the Policy Panels (the highest executive level in each Bureau) are chosen by an outside, independent association. They are volunteers, and serve two year terms.

Have we determined who gets to choose them?