Destroyer of Worlds
Well in the World of Ice and Fire, it says they had bronze weapons not iron also they had ringforts not castles except for the big ones like Winterfell and Storm's End which they invented in the period that was a little after or before the Long Night.
But you came handwave a lot by saying this was much closer to the Go T time period than people think.
The 500-1 BC to Westeros' 1499 BC.
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
Technology tends to evolve in exponential ways you know. After all, Cleopatra is closer to the present day than to the construction of the pyramids, and 95% of our history as a species was spent as hunters-gatherers.
And Sharknado, I'd suggest you should enjoy things, rather than enjoying belittling things. You'd be happier, and you'd create a more enjoyable atmosphere.
Destroyer of Worlds
Making the Night King and Night's King two different people is the best way to go, yeah.
I'm going to go ahead and guess that Brandon the Builder or Brandon of the Bloody Blade is the protagonist but that we'll have an eastern Essosi protagonist too.
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
I wonder which version of Lann the Clever stealing Casterly Rock they'll go with. Or maybe they'll start the series with him already having stolen it and everyone will have heard a different story.
Destroyer of Worlds
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
If he shows up, I hope it isn't as a main character but more like a character that Brandon the Builder/Brandon of the Bloody Blade encounters.
Well, I think the best time setting to do this would be in the final years of Garth the Green and the Opal Emperor's reigns.
Garth the Gardener, Brandon of the Bloody Blade and Amethyst Empress are ascending with AA, Brandon the Builder and the Bloodstone Emperor as precocious teenagers that develop very differently.
Also I hope they make AA, Yin Tar, Neferion, Eldric Shadowchaser, Hyrkoon the Hero and the woman with a monkey's tail into different characters and the main hero band in Essos. You could even make Nissa Nissa the woman with the monkey's tail. Have a real multi-cultural group as the heroes in a multi-cultural empire in contrast to the lily-white cast in GOT.
edited 9th Jun '18 2:13:06 PM by MadSkillz
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
Who Am I?
"Trump: "We are Americans, and we used to be winners. We could get anyone to do anything under the blue sky. But we're not winning anymore. Obama would sell you out to the world for some money, Hillary for even less . . . but I'll give you peace. Wealth. Power. Respect. I'll keep our borders safe and balance the budget, I'll kill Obamacare and keep drugs out of our communities, save the black community and take back Roe v Wade, fix the economy and make sure our country stays true to their Christian values, remake the conservatice party and destroy ISIS. I say we do it all! I say, we make America again." He glanced at the evangelicals in the crowd. "Also God Bless America."
You know, I have to say that this thread is by far the most interesting one in TVT for the insights I have gotten into politics, and how people perceive leaders and leadership. Weird in a way, but I think I can understand some things happening in RL better than I could have before I started following discussions of GOT.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
@ Mad Skills: That makes me wonder what the present day equivalent of Westeros would be like
Destroyer of Worlds
It's a pilot order not a series order. Also GRRM wants to call it The along Night but HBO is probably gonna want to sneak in Game of Thrones somewhere on there.
And another prequel has been shelved. Leaving 3 prequel ideas + The Long Night left.
There could be another prequel pilot that's going to film and maybe more than one in the years to come.
So it's looking like the prequel will be either the Long Night or the next one that films but probably the Long Night.
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
That all you got?
Game of Thrones: The Long Night.
That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Been thinking of what are the close parallels to our own history. Here's what I've got so far, you guys got any ideas on what other periods in ASOIAF history are strong parallels to our own?
- Aegon's Conquest: He's a pretty obvious William the Conqueror stand-in. The troubled succession of Maegor might also reflect how William's sons didn't have a straight succession, considering the oldest brother Robert wasn't chosen as heir and there was much strife between the brothers. Maegor's suspicious death may reflect how a lot of people were suspicious about William Rufus' death
- The Dance of the Dragons: The Anarchy. The female heir(Matilda/Rhaenyra) is denied the throne despite her father(Henry I/Viserys I) saying she should be, Heir Club for Men playing a large role in it. She fights a male relative(Stephen/Aegon II), and ultimately it is her son(Henry II/Aegon III) who ends up king
- Robert's Rebellion and the current story: The War of the Roses or Cousins War
Maegor the Cruel has got a lot in common with Henry VIII: has numerous wives, some of whom he kills, in an effort to produce a male heir; gets in a large conflict with the religious leaders about his marriages, and uses this conflict to greatly decrease the powers or religious leaders and increase those of the Crown.
edited 14th Jun '18 6:37:25 PM by Galadriel
- The Reyne-Tarbeck Rebellion seems to be a pretty evident parallel for the Second Barons' War. Unruly lord (Lord Reyne/Simon de Montfort) rebels against a feeble and unimposing liege (Tytos/Henry III), leading to a rebellion that is subsequently quickly crushed by that liege's much more fierce young heir (Tywin/Prince Edward) with brutality found excessive even by medieval standards (Castamere/Battle of Evesham). Said heir ends up becoming basically a Dragon-in-Chief to his ineffective dad with a reputation for ruthlessness and brutality.
- The Sparrow uprising echoes the Peasants' Revolt. Young King (Tommen/Richard II) faces a grassroots social-religious uprising brought upon by famine and war and led by a charismatic priest (The High Sparrow/John Ball) plus some pious nobility (Lancel Lannister/Sir Roger Bacon). The only major character without a counterpart is Wat Tyler.
Destroyer of Worlds
I know Tywin's been compared to Edward Longshanks (and the Earl of Warwick) by GRRM so that's a good comparison.
I know Cersei's mainly based off Margaret of Anjou. Interestingly genealogy research reveals I'm descended from Edmund Beaufort, Duke of Somerset(through his daughter), who was often rumored to have had an affair with her and be the real father of her and Henry VI's son. Does that mean my ancestor proxy-banged Cersei?
That all you got?
You're lucky your ancestor wasn't drowned.
That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
So was Edmund Tudor, to my knowledge. A lot of people were.
It's almost as if somebody had a vested interest in delegitimising the Lancastrian heir to the throne.
edited 15th Jun '18 11:18:31 PM by DrunkenNordmann
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Destroyer of Worlds
DNA evidence suggests that either the Somersets, the Beauforts or Richard III weren't real Plantagenets.
The current last cader branch of the Planatagenet dynasty(the Somersets who descend from Beauforts) has a completely different Y Chromosome to Richard III. We just don't know which side that falls on.
edited 16th Jun '18 1:01:52 PM by MadSkillz
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
Destroyer of Worlds
Hell, both might illegitimate too and the Plantagenet agnatic line died out a long time ago.
Since the Y chromosome is passed down from father to son, it should look the same in the descendants of Henry Somerset, the 5th Duke of Beaufort, and Richard III. But genetic tests found no sign of a match. Somewhere in the family between Richard III and the Somersets, at least one man had been cuckolded.
Speaking at the Science Museum in London on Wednesday, Turi King, a geneticist working on the case, revealed her team’s latest attempt to get to the bottom of the mystery. A man called Patrice de Warren, who lives in France, had come forward for genetic testing. He could trace his male line back to Richard III through the illegitimate son of Geoffrey, Count of Anjou (1113 - 1151).
King knew that if de Warren’s Y chromosome matched that of Henry Somerset’s, then the affair that broke the male line must have occurred between Edward III and Richard III. But if his Y chromosome matched Richard III’s, the male line was broken between Edward III and the Somersets.
The test result found neither. “De Warren’s Y chromosome doesn’t match Richard III or Henry Somerset, so somewhere along the line there’s been another false paternity event,” King told the Guardian. “It’s opened up the mystery even further.” Since the false paternity rate is around 1-2% in any generation, she said the result was not particularly surprising.
For all the scientists know, Patrice de Warren carries the ‘true’ Plantagenet Y chromosome, and those found in Richard III and the extended family of Henry Somerset were inherited from another man. “The problem is that we cannot say where the break occurs. All it tells us is that we have to keep looking, and that is what we are doing,” said Kevin Schürer, a genealogy expert at Leicester who is working on the case.
More likely than not, the freshly-discovered break in the male line occurred in the 22 generations that separate Patrice de Warren from Geoffrey, Count of Anjou. But if that branch of the tree is found to be intact, the consequences for the monarchy’s history become far more intriguing.
“If that turned out to be the case, and this is pure speculation, then there must have been a break between the Count of Anjou and Richard III. Which means that before we raise questions about the legitimacy of the Yorkist kings and the Lancastrian kings, there are questions higher up the line, raising doubts about nearly all of the Plantagenets,” said Schürer.
The latest findings do not impact on the modern monarchy at all, says King, because there are so many twists and turns in the way the throne is handed over. But depending on where the breaks happened, they could recast a crucial period in the history of the monarchy, affecting the Stuarts, the Tudors and the Windsors.
The investigation is not over yet. Schürer and King now want to test the Y chromosomes of other de Warrens in the US and Australia, and men in the extended Duke of Beaufort family, an option that has clear advantages over the alternative of exhuming lots of dead bodies and testing those. “The idea is to have a pincer movement and tackle it on a number of different fronts,” said Schürer. “We’re not going to give up the quest.”
edited 16th Jun '18 1:09:01 PM by MadSkillz
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
Anyway, I'm just really way of "oh, x queen slept with everyone but her husband" rumours.
There were many reasons to discredit Margaret of Anjou: To cast doubt on her son's legitimacy and strenghten the House of York's claim, to undermine her authority (she was basically leading the war in favour of her mentally ill husband) and because she was French.
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
@ Mad Skillz: The Lancasters and Beauforts are descended from John of Gaunt, the York from Edmund. If Richard III's DNA doesn't match, then it wouldn't affect Henry Tudor unless the affair happened to Edward III himself as he's supposed to be the common ancestor of both. At least, I think that'd be the case. I'm not sure what it would mean in theory to the royal family post Henry Tudor, though in practice it means virtually nothing since it was over 500 years after the fact we learned this.
With Edward III himself, was there ever any accusations he had to face that he was a bastard? His mother is known for a fact to have had an affair, and there's a good chance her husband was gay. It happened long after his conception and gay men can still choose to father children, but I feel it should have led to tongues wagging that she was carrying on affairs before Edward III's conception. No, I am not including Braveheart
edited 16th Jun '18 5:21:02 PM by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93
Destroyer of Worlds
@RJ Well as the other quotes shows, De Warren's chromosome doesn't even match either Richard III's or the Somersets.
So if De Warren has the true Plantagenet chromosome then neither of them are actual Plantagenets.
Or maybe none of them are and the Plantagenet agnatic line is dead.
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
So the line may have broken between Henry II and Edward III, right? Hm...I wonder if it was Isabella, considering what I mentioned. Not that I'd blame her
Destroyer of Worlds
Would be pretty funny if Edward III was more closely related to the Capets than he was to the Plantagenets.
Or if he was really Roger Mortimer's son somehow.
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
Oh, boy, I can't wait to see how technology won't have changed in any way whatsoever in this static medieval myopia Martin created.
My various fanfics.