A Song Of Ice And Fire

Americans are slightly smarter than the ironborn and we got duped by Trump sooo....good point.

We flipped out over a red Starbucks cup once. I don't know if we really are smarter.

Aeron Greyjoy = Democrats/the Never Trumpers

edited 10th Jun '18 2:56:34 PM by MadSkillz

Wouldn't democrats be Asha? She us the only one that ran on any progressive platform.

The Others are a different ballgame for me. They're the manifestations of a natural force (namely, winter), a Eldritch Abomination race you're never meant to actually comprehend, just dread and hope you never cross paths with. They're flat because they're purposely written as inhuman and unfathomable.

Euron's perfectly human. He's just flat.

None of those three are particularly deep, but neither one of them is as high and mighty as Euron has shown himself to be. Joffrey is propped up by the fact he's a mentally deficient fruit of incest, had a absentee father and a psychotic mother and the fact he's is basically a spineless cowardly child. Ramsay has the bastard entitlement issues and his bizarre father-son relationship with Roose.

Euron has nothing. Everyone and everything is a tool to him. That's it. We don't even have much reason to give why he's the way he is (even Gregor Clegane gets some vague implications he might be actually severely mentally ill going by Qyburn saying he drinks milk of the poppy by the boatloads and has terrible headaches). He's just naturally a sociopathic asshole with no attachment to anything.

If I was writing Euron specifically there are a handful of paths I could take. I didn't actually mind what the show did with him, by just reducing him to a extremely skilled pirate and warrior with a perverse sense of humor, leaving him still as a threat but a more grounded one.

But I digress. Since you asked what I would do and not what I found of the show's route, I'd work with the concept of his lips being covered with "shade of the evening". Shade of the evening has been depicted as a drug, so I'd probably make Euron as addicted to shade of the evening to the point it's clearly eroding his physical and mental health. Making him a pirate, politician and sorcerer yes, but his hunger for power is quickly eating him inside out and he's basically living on borrowed time (since the hypothetical shade of the evening addiction is going to kill him sooner or later), giving him a additional factor for his villainous actions: he has nothing to lose. Making his naked villainy more palpable.

Character-wise, I'd make him a deeply horrible man as he is in canon, but again, I'd put the shade of the evening aspect front and center, so I'd work with the idea that after his whole life of brutality, violence and immorality he's at the end of his life and is trying to find a greater purpose. Thus he's obsessed and driven by sorcery because a life of debauchery in the mortal world has yielded him nothing. He wants something more, something true (I'm thinking, vaguely, of The Man in Black in Westworld).

That idea of mine, I believe, would make him both somewhat more nuanced (a dying man Desperately Looking for a Purpose in Life of sorts) and give him a logical weakness (his quickly eroding mental and physical health as a result of his substance abuse).

I mean she does get a whole thing with Rodrik Harlaw and even being interacting with Stannis's war effort is already more than Aeron did. Hell, her part to play in the election is bigger than Aeron's, who doesn't do much other than kickstart the Kingsmoot and then observe as shit his the fan.

I don't mind Victarion being used to build Euron up. He's just as flat as him and really I don't see much use of him in the narrative, which is why his chapters have been very dull for me.

Aeron however, is the most interesting Greyjoy (aside from Theon) and he's immediately shafted. He has more depth than Asha, Victarion, Euron and Balon combined.

edited 23rd May '18 4:00:49 PM by Gaon

At this point the Democrats would be House Harlaw, the one sane group that knows that America is going in the wrong direction, but the Republicans are dumb enough and bullheaded enough that they think the world will roll over for them.

Yeah but Euron doesn't want to be human. He's attempting for something more.

This is what Euron wants to be. So, he's not as flat as an Other because he hasn't made himself as inhuman yet but that's his goal.

For all intents and purposes, you might as well call Euron a southern Other or a human slowly transforming into something equally demonic/eldricht.

He's technically human but the narrative is telling us that he's not acting like one and will be less so in the future.

This could be more symbolic but I'm hoping that this visual transformation at least partially happens.

We have implications for Euron. He seems to be bizarrely attached to Bloodraven.

I've kind of gotten the impression that he thinks or thought of Bloodraven as God and that all his debauchery started out as a sociopathic cry for Bloodraven to come talk to him again like when he was a little kid and that Bloodraven staying silent upsets him.

You go in with the knowledge that Euron believes that Bloodraven is/was his god and these take different meanings.

Like Euron talks a lot about gods, he's attempting godhood and he's almost cosplaying as Bloodraven who is the closest thing you have to a god in this universe. And Euron's almost certainly had contact with Bloodraven. (Hence naming his ship the Silence as in the Silence of the Gods, wearing a red eyepatch over his blood/black eye, turning his personal sigil into another Bloodraven reference and wanting to grab a dragon and get with a Targaryen princess to make an heir worthy of "him" whatever that means.)

If Bloodraven's role is God then Euron's role is Lucifer from Paradise Lost.

Or he's like the Man in Black from the Dark Tower whose final goal is to meet the man at the top of tower and if the room is empty then instead he'll take it for himself and become god.

One thing the show does with the NK is imply that the TEC and him have a relationship. The NK even looks into the TEC's eyes before killing him. I've always thought they there could be a book analogue to that where Bran and Bloodraven are talking in the astral plane and Euron barges in and kills Bloodraven out of a sense of betrayal after seeing that he's been replaced by Bran.

Well, Euron only has a limited supply of the warlock's wine. He specially only has one cask of warlock's wine and it's indicated that he's drinking it a lot of it since his lips go from blue to black in a short timespan. I've been assuming that he's going to be going through hardcore withdrawals once he runs out. Idk what the side-effects of what that could be but it could prove very grounding.

Yeah, this works. My preference is pretty similar to my interpretation of Euron.

All she does is flesh out Rodrik, Tris Botley and herself in her first chapter.

I'd argue that starting the Kingsmoot is more important than being a contestant in it. I mean Lord Farwynd was a contestant and I wouldn't say he had a larger role than Aeron.

I really enjoy Victarion's relationship with Moquorro and his newfound dual allegiance to the Drowned God and R'hllor. He'd be great to play off of Tyrion but yes, I think Victarion is just the ironborn version of Quentyn. And both Quentyn and Victarion are just lesser versions of Aegon and Euron respectively. Sacrificial PO Vs to build up Aegon and Euron.

I like Aeron more because he's as interesting as Theon while being as likeable as Asha.

I think Aeron's gonna have a great final chapter (GRRM says that the Forsaken wasn't his last chapter) but I'm afraid it's going to end with him being broken completely.

So TWOW is supposed to feature a horn on it. Is that supposed to refer to Joramun's Horn of Winter, or to Euron's Dragonbinder horn?

Or perhaps both?

As for Euron and the Others, I think we're supposed to see Euron as in over his head. If the Others win, they will kill him.

I think Euron's power will come from a dragon and an army of undead Ironborn and Redwyne soldiers. He won't become a god, or even godlike. If he is Saruman, as Emmett Booth predicts, than his army is that of Isengard. Dangerous but not so much as Barad-dur.

Saruman in role and Walter O' Dim in personality is how I see him.

Rickon as a POV might have been possible with the 5 year timeskip.

Interesting word choice to describe Rickon though.

Rabid- a : extremely violent : furious

Rickon Stark the Mad Wolf.

Oh and the Ice Dragon is getting an animated film produced by.....GRRM.

edited 25th May '18 2:01:47 PM by MadSkillz

Besides, of course Euron comes across as amazing and unstoppable. He just began his role as a villain. I think Euron is going to fall hard.

To use Emmett Booth's association with the characters Saruman and Randall Flagg: Saruman died because he couldn't resist abusing Grima. Walter tried to trick a psychic demigod and was eaten alive for his arrogance. Just as importantly, I think, they're unexpected and sudden. Saruman died moments after accepting mercy, and Randy died in the middle of his master plan.

I think Euron, after sacrificing his fleet and turning them into zombies, will escape the final battle. And run into Victarion or even random Ironborn troops who know they were betrayed. And Euron's magic won't stop an axe in his chest or a sword to his cuts.

edited 26th May '18 10:01:18 PM by SilentColossus

Of course he is, people are already working against him and the Ironborn are quite clearly already over-extending themselves.

Euron knows he can't hold the Shields; that's not his goal.

I don't think he has any real campaign goals. He's not really conquering so much as placating his men and trying to grab more magical items.

Like I'm guessing Jaqen is under Euron's employ rather than the Faceless Men's or they're working together.

It's too coincidental that Jaqen just killed Balon for Euron and now he's at the same place that Euron is and he's looking for Valyrian scrolls within the Citadel.

Yep. He originally wanted to have the Iron Fleet go to Slaver's Bay to directly connect with Dany to get her dragons. But he misjudged what his army wanted, so he had to send Vic instead.

Euron's original strategy:

Take the Shield Islands, drop some disloyal guys off there and go to Slaver's Bay to bind the dragons to me hold hostage until Daenerys marries me.

Euron's new strategy:

Take the Shield Islands, take the Arbor and Oldtown and send Victarion with the Iron Fleet to Slaver's Bay so Vic can kidnap the dragons with Dragonbinder and make Daenerys come to me where I hold all her dragons hostage unless she marries me.

Both strategies boil down to "if you want your kids back then you gotta marry their new step-dad".

edited 27th May '18 5:33:22 PM by MadSkillz

This relates to history as well, but was there ever historical precedent of bastards having the place they were born/lived factor into their name like in ASOIAF? I know Leonardo Da Vinci was both a bastard and born around Vinci, but I'm wondering if this was ever something they did.

Also, I'm wondering what this series' France equivalent would be culturally, assuming it has one.

Oh shit.

Prequel series confirmed.

Give me the Bloodstone Emperor NOW!!!

The Long Night better be part of this, plus the Thirteenth Lord Commander and the Night's King story with Joramun, King Beyond the Wall, and Brandon the Breaker.

Cool.

Something I've often mentioned is that I would love to see a book of the different kind of tales that are alluded to, especially the comic ones of Lann and Pate, but also Florian and Jonquil and Old Nan's various stories (although I think we get the most details on them).

So this is a nice substitute. Also, I haven't seen it again for a long while, but I loved Stardust, and for me (along with Matthew Vaughan's Layer Cake) is a movie that improves upon the source material. And with that in connection with her other work, I can imagine someone who can do whimsical comedy, blood and gore (as either comedy or tragedy), and dark drama.

Something I have wondered though about other adaptations is how to square the book's Night's King with the show's tale. Because I understand the show version to be basically using the Night's King name for the Great Other concept and not ruling out the 13th Lord Commander guy. He's just a different person. Because I'd really like to see him adopted as basically evil Jon Snow.

edited 8th Jun '18 1:12:20 PM by Hodor2

I wonder how much influence Martin has. Like is this actually what he intended as the backstory or are they just taking the few details provided in The World of Ice and Fire and making their own story out of it?

If it's the former I'm really excited to see what the Great Empire of the Dawn is like.

@Kostya I'm thinking as much as early seasons GOT if not more.

I might be more excited for this than TWOW tbh as long as they show the Great Empire of the Dawn.

This is hard to figure out. They may have to adapt some things in a way that makes sense with both the books and the show.

Do the Children or Bloodraven ever call him Night's King? It's possible the characters in the show are just calling him that for lack of a better name. The only leader of the Others they ever heard of was the actual Night's King even if he's not the same entity.

So my take/handwave would be that the 13th Lord Commander would be called "The Night King" in basically the same way we might call someone "The Devil", particularly because he was the King of the Night's Watch. So it's kind of a pun.

Now it's a tougher question as to what to do about his Other (White Walker) bride, especially because they seem to be all male in the show, but even before the show, I questioned that element. It would make as much sense to me that she didn't exist at all and got in the story because they "needed" an evil woman. Or she could have been a wight or some kind of undead sorceress, if she did exist..