Pokémon anime

No episode today.

The next episode's gonna be on Friday the 13^th October.

And 'tis gonna be an interesting one—
Hopefully worth the wait!

it's been several months now, but it's still surreal to think we're in a post-Ash era Pokemon anime. It's honestly a day I never thought would come.

All those years and decades of people wondering if the anime would ever end with Ash, or if Ash would ever leave, and it finally happened. Sometimes it just doesn't feel "real" that it actually happened.

Edited by precita on Sep 30th 2023 at 3:18:45 AM

It's surprising me too, but now that the entirety of Ash's stint as the protagonist has been dubbed to the end, makes me wonder when they're gonna pump out a dub of Pokemon Horizons.

Hm.
If I'm not mistaken, there were episodes on 23 June this year, and the most recent ones were 23 September.

So if I had to guess wildly, Horizons episodes will probably be December?

Don't know for sure, but maybe that will be when it premieres in English. Though whether the episodes air live or are on Netflix only in the USA, who knows.

The next saga will be known as The Sparkling of Terapagos. It premieres after the finale episode to Liko and Roy's Departure.

The fact that they already brought Terapagos out as the center of the anime's new season is interesting, considering not all of the Ancient Hero's Pokemon are gathered yet, not to mention Roy's goal with Rayquaza.

To be fair given that the black Rayquaza came out of an Ancient Monster Ball there's a high chance it belonged to the hero and so that makes half his team accounted for (If Rayquqaza turns out to be his.). Terapagos has kind of been the center of the anime from the start. We've just been waiting for the characters to find out why and for things to come to a head. I imagine once it's done dealing with Terapagos the show will focus on Rayquqaza and the Ancient Hero more. Especially if they don't managage to find the last 3-4 members of the Ancient Hero's team by then.

Edited by Chariot on Oct 3rd 2023 at 4:49:04 AM

So he had an all legendary team ?

No, the Ancient Hero had a non-Legendary too (Arboliva).

There's no ambiguity, they stated outright Lucius' main Pokemon was Rayquaza, I think. But yeah, that means we've only seen three of his Pokemon so far.

I'm gonna guess one of the wolves is also on his team. After all both are legendary heroes.

YMMV.Pokemon Journeys The Series:

• Audience-Alienating Ending: When it was announced that Aim to be A Pokémon Master would be the last chapter of Ash's journey as the lead, audiences on both sides of the Pacific weren't impressed with how it ended with Ash not becoming a Pokémon Master as the title implied, instead more or less adhering to the status quo by having Ash Wandering the Earth with Pikachu and again being endlessly pursued by Team Rocket. It didn't help that the show ended with a lot of plot threads (such as Ash's released or in-training Pokémon not coming back except Pidgeot), the threat of Team Rocket still looming large, Misty and Serena's feelings for Ash, or even Ash now being the World Coronation Series Monarch) dangling, and not giving the character a sense of closure.

I believe this would only applies to the Aim to be A Pokémon Master series given how well received Ash's victory in the Journey’s finale was. This is also the first time I’ve heard of such backlash, which requires they think the ending make the work not worth it (or at least pretended it ended prior), against its ending. It's the Same, So It Sucks seems diffident to cover the issue. Thoughts on that?

Relating, from YMMV.Pokemon S 25 E 53 The Rainbow And The Pokemon Master:

• Esoteric Happy Ending:
  • Team Rocket's final reunion is framed in a positive light, as the three are just happy to be back together and chasing their dreams forever... even though that dream is very blatantly impossible, and in doing so the trio have effectively resigned themselves to an eternity of failure. When considering the alternative possibility of Team Rocket finally turning a new leaf or even helping to take down Giovanni, their lack of closure can get very frustrating very quickly.
  • To a lesser extent, the same applies to Ash. He decides that to him, a Pokémon Master is someone who can befriend every Pokémon in the world, and sets off across the world again to see that goal out. This is in spite of the fact that Ash has seen proof many times that some Pokémon truly are completely irredeemable (or at worst, might outright try to kill him), on top of the obvious fact that no one (even someone who never ages) could ever hope to meet every single Pokémon on Earth, let alone befriend them all. It can become rather depressing to think about the fact that Ash is also chasing a dream he will never truly achieve, despite the episode's intentions.

Thoughts on these?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Oct 4th 2023 at 5:25:34 AM

There are a few people who complained mainly about small things (like Ash not defeating Giovanni and thus Team Rocket as a whole, the reasons why the show doesn't have him take this path are covered under Older Than They Think on the same page). So while there is some backlash, it's probably nowhere as big as those tropes hint at. It's likely that due to the Troubled Production of Journeys, the writing team had to keep the characters from deviating too far from their status quos so that they could return to them should Horizons fail. Also, it's the show managing to set a goal so impossible that his journey will now never truly end, as the old interview stating him being a Master would be his final episode is technically untrue now.

Edited by 6f5e4d on Oct 4th 2023 at 5:35:00 AM

"Pokemon Master" being explained in Ash's words of wanting to meet Pokemon all around the world fits perfectly and was the theme of the show since it began. There's nobody in power above Leon (as of now in canon), so it's not like there's some super secret Pokemon Master character for Ash to battle or beat.

Instead being a Pokemon Master meaning learning and meeting all Pokemon is what the whole show was always about. Even many of the past Elite 4 members have Bruno, Lorelei, Drake, etc. all giving similar messages through the series. It was the theme of the show since Season 1.

Edited by precita on Oct 4th 2023 at 3:22:45 AM

Honestly, there needs to be evidence that Pokémon: To Be a Pokémon Master was not well received by fans due to the whole Pokémon Master goal not achieved because this is the first time I've heard of it. I can understand if it's being a more low-key ending than most, no Giovanni battle or Ash catching Latias...

But this reason? Ash not becoming a Pokémon Master is the issue? By this point, everyone should know that to be a Pokémon Master isn't really a goal. It's a drive. A motivation to always improve themselves and better than yesterday. Ash is 10 years old. He's got a long life ahead of him. Ash will never retire from his Pokémon Journey. It should be evident from the moment Cynthia states that her battle with Ash reinvigorates her to not retire from Pokémon Battling because she finally found someone who bested her. Leon is the same thing. He found someone who bested him. And what was his biggest fear? That he would have no challenges left.

And they're adults. They have accomplished a lot more than Ash relatively speaking. Yet they don't want the adventure to end just yet. When you see Pokémon Master as a metaphor for living and improving yourself, everything that Ash does and strives for makes perfect sense. To be the very best like no one ever was.

As such, this ending was always to be expected. Ash will reflect that he still has room to improve even when he's at the top of the world. He will continue his journey to meet new Pokémon and discover new things with Pikachu. And the Adventure Continues is practically what Pokémon as a whole is all about. You don't see your trainer retiring after beating the Elite Four and Champion. There are post-game contents that the trainer can visit and catch Pokémon even more powerful than the Elite Four, especially Mewtwo. Your trainer will continue their journey long after becoming Champion. And Ash, being the embodiment of the player trainer, is no different.

So I don't get what those examples are trying to get with Ash's ending being unsatisfying aside from the Latias plotline didn't end with Ash adding Latias to his team (since it's was actually a plot featured in anime and not a bucket of wishlist that will never be enough for a mini-series).

Edited by Shadao on Oct 5th 2023 at 12:45:45 PM

I think it was people just setting their expectations too high, expecting something similar to another anime that actually got an official ending, when Pokemon's always had less stakes. The examples also compared it to other shows that had more conclusive endings which aired the same year.

Eh, even so, the series is constantly hammering in that Ash wants to become a Pokemon Master. Being stuck forever chasing an impossible dream is definitely something that can and has been seen negatively, although I don't know if Audience-Alienating Ending quite applies since Ash's ending seemed to be at least tolerated by most people.

It's the Same, So It Sucks might be more accurate for Ash since the finale did play it very safe. I will say I've seen a lot of people interpret Ash's dream in a looser way to make it at least slightly more plausible, and I think the people who don't like the constant return to status quo are enough to be acknowledged.

I definitely stand by Esoteric Happy Ending for Team Rocket though. There's just no excuse for not giving them redemption when the series has hinted ever since the first season that they'd be better off as good guys.

If the dream is theoretically obtainable. A Pokémon Master is not obtainable as a goal because the ultimate definition is a vague “To be the best like no one ever was”. Ash leaves us as the World Champion. He has fans who seek him out for either autographs or challenges. He helps Pokémon in need. That’s the closest you’ll get for being a Pokémon Master. He just still has room to grow, room for another adventure.

This is in contrast to Team Rocket, whose goal is theoretically obtainable. They can capture Pikachu and deliver him to the boss. But they never think beyond that. What to do after completing their goal. While Ash has moved beyond the goal of winning Leagues and becoming the world’s strongest champion, Team Rocket still remain stuck in their tangible goal rather than finding other means of being Giovanni’s favorite.

Edited by Shadao on Oct 5th 2023 at 12:48:38 PM

Or just not being a part of Team Rocket anymore.

Like, at this point, I accept the fact that they are kinda assholes who'll always try to steal other people's stuff, but they aren't really getting anywhere with Team Rocket (barring that brief surge in success during the early parts of Best Wishes, which the writers quickly doubled back on).

They don't want to be good guys even though they'd do better that way? Fine. But being part of Team Rocket seems to be a dead end they refuse to realize is a dead end.

Anyway, the series ended how it ended. I'm fine with it.

I know that, but you described exactly the problem people have. We as the audience understand that a Pokemon Master isn't a real attainable endgoal. But Ash genuinely believes it is, even though it actually isn't. He's constantly proving this through his dialogue. A lot of fans aren't satisfied with that.

Seems we agree on Team Rocket though? Regardless, I think Ash's ending deserves to at least be acknowledged as YMMV. The whole point of those tropes is to cover subjective material, after all.

I cannot say for certain if Ash genuinely believes a Pokémon Master is obtainable or not. Even from the beginning, Ash has been vague about what being a Pokémon Master is. Really, when he said that winning the League is another step of being a Pokémon Master, it comes across as him just doing what other trainers would have done.

When Gary asked him that question of being a Pokémon Master, Ash arrived at the same point as Leon did. The existential crisis of having no challenges left after reaching the top. It's something Ash had to ponder because as the World Champion, there's nowhere to go except wait for someone to defeat him in the next World Tournament. For Leon, it's soul-crushing. This is why he decided to define Pokémon Master as someone who befriends all the Pokémon. The never-ending journey to be better than before without the burden of being on top of the world all the time.

It should be noted that the final episode is the only time Ash ever properly defined a Pokémon Master. In the past, he only said it's greater than being the world's strongest trainer but never explains how it's bigger. By giving a good and clear definition (and not relying on League rules), Ash has taken control of his destiny completely. Wherever he goes, he knows how to get there by himself.

Again, I still don't see how it could end any other way without an actual Time Skip.

Feels like saying Ash has no challenges after winning the World Championship is inaccurate(?) and not really substantiated by the show.

It’s something that Leon mentions to Ash about his feelings of being the champion. It’s something that Cythnia hinted to Diantha in the Master 8 tournament, making plans to retire from Pokémon battling.

Them being beaten by Ash reinvigorates their spirits to continue their careers rather than retiring. But the fact they had it is quite telling. What they experienced is what Ash faced in the final episode. Where do you go after reaching the top? And Ash found his own answer after contemplating in the rain.