A Transformers Thread

So...as long time Transformers fans, we've all asked this question:

My thoughts: Starscream may have just been more useful offscreen than he looked during an average episode. The idea that Megatron kept him nearby to keep himself sharp may also have some merit.

What do you guys think?

...I mean beyond the obvious answer of his toy was still selling.

I think Megatron himself said it best◊...

@ Handsome Rob

No clue why. It made no damn sense. In fact, that's just simply another reason as to why Transformers Animated is the best of the franchise - Megatron had no toleration for Starscream's crap.

Plus, personally Animated Bee is my favorite version of the character, both in design and in personality. I dislike the goody two shoes angel of G1, along with the (suddenly) leader-by-popular-demand in TFP and RID. The Bayformers version has the lowest marks for not being one of the smallest Autobots, and also starting the trend where he's mute and is second to Optimus in terms of asskicking (a character trait that the writers foolishly copied for TFP Bee). Jeez, talk about overpowered.

Cyberverse Bee would be my second favorite version. Not as charming as Animated, but a blend of all the best traits from previous Bee's.

I’m gonna go with Megs keeps Stars around simply because the latter keeps him on his cervos.

A bot can’t be getting rusty after all.

Transformers Prime gave the best explanation, Starscream is actually really good with organization and management. He wants power and is actually kind of good with it, even in G1 he was the leader of the elite Sweeps. But he lacks Megatron's charisma and raw power to instill loyalty in a faction based on following the biggest and meanest. When he bailed on the Cons Megatron is pissed because Starscream knows more about their infrastructure than anyone, maybe even Soundwave. Animated Starscream had a big problem with And Then What?, the Cons were already so fractured that there wasn't really a throne to take, and spent most of his time as an independent party.

Edited by KJMackley on Oct 14th 2018 at 5:35:54 AM

Goddamn, Siege is going to hit my wallet like a truck.

"No clue why. It made no damn sense. In fact, that's just simply another reason as to why Transformers Animated is the best of the franchise"

That is a matter of opinion. Since all Animated did was give me migraines.

Edited by Twoandahalfcents on Oct 17th 2018 at 11:35:51 AM

So on a whim, I bought TR Trypticon. He's bigger than I expected.

Isn't he as big as the Fort Max and Metroplex of a few years back?

He's shorter, but I think he's also stockier, so it's about the same in terms of mass. I don't know, I've just gotten used to Transformers I buy online being a bit smaller than I expect. He looks really good, even without the stickers, which is good because I don't like stickers to begin with and there is no way I'm applying over 150 stickers to something.

I enjoyed Animated Bee's design, but found his personality annoying. He kept doing stupid things, and even once he got his stingers upgraded, still was useless in a fight.

I do wonder if the logic behind Starscream's position in Prime applied to the original as well. He was good at the management stuff and occasionally came up with some good ideas when we weren't watching the usual shit.

I mean, that's one way to think of it. I imagine they didn't put as much thought into it back in those days.

Starscream in G1 was certainly more than an underling with ambition, but someone who repeatedly tried shooting Megatron in the back. For an 80's cartoon with Loads And Loads Of Characters this gave him a lot of personality, but they didn't really think about continuity and variety from episode to episode, and so it was more of "This is Starscreams' Once an Episode gimmick" the same way Soundwave had his cassette minions. The movie was when they actually had a pay-off to his backstabbing.

Later incarnations of the franchise paid more attention to the subtlety needed for a character like that. The Unicron trilogy made him into someone more thirsting for power rather than looking to overthrow Megatron personally. Animated was all about taking power by any means and, as I said, had him operating more as his own faction because the Decepticons were not a unified group anyway. Prime made him more of an opportunist, looking for more ego stroking but had to be more submissive because half the Decepticons were stronger than him.

On the toys, I have my own collection, most of them from on the movies because I liked the sculpting, being largely based on real vehicles and complex transformations appealing to adult collectors. The Last Knight harmed my interest in part due to a mediocre line (and the first movie I couldn't really defend), but the Studio Series line piqued it back up and I've been getting collecting those. The goal of the entire line is maintaining approximate scale between robot modes, which includes things like a much more accurate Leader Class Blackout, as the original '07 toy was a Voyager and didn't really match the largest character in the movie.

@ Twoandahalfcents

If Animated's art style bothered you, I can easily forgive that. I have my own fair share of shows that I don't like because of the art style.

If it wasn't the art style, please elaborate some more.

@ Handsome Rob

Well at least Animated Bee never killed Megatron in a Shocking Swerve and became the Autobot Leader.

And while other Bumblebee's may be more useful in fights, it's at the expense of Decepticon competence.

When it comes to Megatron keeping Starscream despite Starscream being The Starscream, I use this quote from The Shadowed One:

"Every ruler must have a shadow, a being who watches and waits every moment of the day. At the first sign of weakness, the shadow pounces, defeats the ruler, and assumes the throne for himself. It is a brutal but necessary way to make sure compassion and doubt never enter a ruler's heart."

It fits with Decepticon ideology. Megatron should be at the top of his game. He must never show weakness to his followers and his foes. So having someone constantly questioning him or even try to usurp him is a good means of propaganda to show who's boss. And Starscream is a capable leader on his own, even by G1 cartoon standards where all the villains are incompetent buffoons (except Soundwave). It's only if Starscream's 80s backstabbing is applied to modern standards that people scratch their heads as to why Megatron would keep an incompetent buffoon who is constantly undermining him.

In regards to Animated Bumblebee, I think the problem is that Animated Bumblebee doesn't really mature unlike say Hot Shot or Prime Smokescreen. Sure, there was that time where he tried to apologize to Wasp (now Waspinator) but it really feels half-hearted even when it's genuine. As such, he really does become annoying because he never grows as a character (at least if memory serves me well).

This is why giving Bumblebee the Hot Rod arc is a step in the right direction if people really wanted to use the Hot Shot Bumblebee personality. And honestly, Bumblebee killing Megatron in Prime was perhaps the greatest highlight of awesomeness in Transformers history, topping even the final battle between Optimus and Megatron in the 1986 movie and Unicron's transformation.

Edited by Shadao on Nov 4th 2018 at 1:44:38 AM

Sixgun is looking really great, but I don't know why the bio is calling his alt-mode a tank.

The fact is, that makes sense with their philosophy and ideology, but it will never top the explanation in Transformers: Generation 2.

“BECAUSE I’M AN IDIOT, THAT’S WHY!”

The thing is G1 Transformers show was more comical during Megatron's run. He was less an intimidating overlord and more a standard arrogant cartoon villain who argued with his subordinates like an old married couple, Starscream especially.

In later more serious works this is lost, especially since there's a clearer hierarchy between the two most of the time with Megatron more serious and unmatchable and Starscream much more as a grovelling underling (compared to G1 when he was suicidally impudent besides when he realised that he really pissed Megatron off).

Add to that Starscream made a good pawn, a guinea pig for many of Megatron's schemes that he didn't have to feel bad about using.

Apparently Blu Mankuman, who voiced Tigatron / Tigerhawk, amongst others, is suffering from some medical condition and there's a crowdfunder to help him. Been apparently confirmed by Sobolov (Depth Charge)]]

Edited by Ghilz on Nov 6th 2018 at 12:19:43 PM

You know how much people hated Rodimus Prime being leader of the Autobots? I always remember how Optimus was trying to pass the Matrix to Ultra Magnus, then dropped it and Hot Rod caught it. Presumably this is the reason why Hot Rod could open it and Ultra Magnus couldn't. I think that if he hadn't fumbled it Ultra Magnus would have been able to use it. Maybe not. Maybe the Matrix just preferred Hot Rod for some reason. But I've always wondered: If Ultra Magnus had taken over leadership instead of Rodimus, would fans have hated him too, just because he's not Prime? Or would they have agreed that he's the natural choice to replace Prime? Because I fall into the later camp, and watching Season 3 I frequently think that Prime was right and Ultra Magnus was much better suited for command than just about any other Autobot you could name, Rodiums included.

Rodimus was hated not just because he replaced Prime. Many fans felt he was partially responsible for Optimus's death, as he interfered during his fight with Megatron and prevented him from getting a clear shot at him. Combined that with Rodimus's sometimes questionable leadership in Season 3, and you got a character that was always going to be considered a step-down from the original Prime.

I'm certain there would still be people who would dislike Ultra Magnus on sheer principle alone had he taken on the mantle of leadership, but he probably would've been better received than Hot Rod was. I liked the concept of a young Autobot struggling to follow in the footsteps of Optimus after his death, but I don't think the show handled it all too well. While I've only seen the first season of Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015), I felt that show handled that concept better with Bumblebee trying to lead his own team before realizing he has to be a leader in his own way.

The overall quality of writing and characterization for Transformers was just not up to handle that kind of complexity. It was a ploy to sell toys, which is why the Transformers wiki has a page on just that. The series became successful because of the broad personalities, ambitious mythology and sheer coolness factor, not because it was particularly well written. Hasbro definitely learned their lesson (people become attached to the characters and not just the newest toy) and at least attempts to avoid such blatant substitutes like Rodimus, even if they still mandate certain characters be killed off and new characters written in.

The attempts at replicating Optimus' death and a change of leadership since the movie have generally gone better: let the character have or build some meaningful relationship with Optimus, let them earn the right to lead rather than using The Chosen One to skip that part and have them express reservations before rising to the challenge. Cheetor, Hot Shot, Smokescreen and Bumblebee have filled mildly similar roles to at least marginally better reception (I did like Smokescreen's lesson about destiny vs. lucking out). Hot Rod was plucky but didn't appear to grow into the responsibility before the Matrix opened up and did all the work. While Ultra Magnus may not have been a good fit, he was given a real shit show to start with and initially rejected the offer because he didn't feel right about it.

I'm pleasantly surprised to learn that Armada toyline was a success. Even though I don't like the gimmick, Armada remains one of my favorite designs (right up there with Fall of Cybertron) and it was my introduction to the franchise.

Speaking of the toyline, any recommendations for toys around $10 and $25 price tag?

Does anyone want to see Hot Shot being another animated series again? Because funny enough, I was exposed to Hot Shot first before Bumblebee as a kid.

Modern Bumblebees, if they are not mute, are essentially red-and-black Hot Shots.

Hot Shot himself is a combination of Bumblebees and Hot Rods (his planned name was Bumblebee and his Japanese Armada name is Hot Rod).

Edited by RAlexa21th on Nov 24th 2018 at 8:52:10 AM

Hot Shot is going to be in the new Rescue Bots show.

I love his design mostly. It's all squat and blocky and cute. I was deeply saddened they never made the Animated toy of him.

Edited by RodimusMinor on Nov 25th 2018 at 5:09:05 AM