During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
That Blue Inkling
Yes and I want to read this proposals.
MeeM
I already gotten Lucks approved and Francis was already voted down twice.
That Blue Inkling
I know. Can somebody give a links on page with proposals for them?
MeeM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
If you don't mind me asking, why do you want to look at the proposals?
That Blue Inkling
Just because I interested.
MeeM
I see, well, not sure if I can find Francis' first EP, but I'll give out the link for Lucks' EP here since you asked: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=9690#comment-24223
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
You're welcome.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Jan 31st 2021 at 10:10:05 AM
That Blue Inkling
Ok, thx.
MeeM
“ Otherwise, not much seems to support this in-game.”
What is ‘not much’? Is it not touched on at all? I don’t really have the desire to check out either this game or material around it but do they not mention this at all or is it implied and expanded upon by the author? I want to know exactly what we’re looking at here.
Goku Black
I'll just... Hide in shame from that Francis EP I made.
Woagh
It's one of those cases where you could make an argument about the statement, but evidence points towards the other, more understandable thing.
Like I said, I really don't mind him going down, so If anyone has other arguments, I'll be happy to hear them.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
That Blue Inkling
Miraculous, thx.
MeeM
Lizzid people!
That doesn't really make it much clear. Either the WOG aspects are not in the game, or they are.
We're still on the same argument. Expand Dood. If the game makes this situation for the character(s) a clear possibility and there's a Word of God that this is the proper reading we need to look at this. This can't just be swept under the rug while trying to move on to "other" arguments... was this in the initial EP? I don't recall.
Woagh
Well, looking it over, there's evidence to support it, and thinking it over it actually makes a lot of sense. It's just that the "Creation is evil" interpretation everyone had also made sense. Word of God backing up the former sells it.
Look, I'm absolutely terrible at explaining these kind of situations, this is my first time a CM was questioned later on, and I'm honestly really nervous about this. I'll go look for some evidence, is that cool?
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Jan 31st 2021 at 11:08:08 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, we agreed to cut that Batman animated dude, right?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
... so the WoG is supported in game, contrary to what was claimed? You're still being quite unclear.
Yes.
Edited by 43110 on Jan 31st 2021 at 2:01:03 PM
Lizzid people!
Eh, just go ahead and cut the game. Just feels like we're going around in circles here.
Even ignoring the fact that Word of God personally jossed the "Creation is Michael" theory in 2018, it really makes no sense in the lore as we play as Michael in the Basement and that level centers around making Creation.
No one's mad at you Dood. I just wasn't sure what was going on and the "No Critical Research Failure" implied that nothing had been missed in the initial EP. Missing something is fine but what we value are fair assessments and honesty. If the character doesn't fit that's fine but please don't try to scramble to find disingenuous points just to counter this, that interrupts the fair voting process. Keep it in mind for going forward and please be more direct in answers but I think we've got everything now so let's just allow it to run its course.
Edited by 43110 on Jan 31st 2021 at 2:32:29 PM
Goku Black
Cut Michael/Creation
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cut Creation.
You know what? I can barely make heads or tails of this debate, so count me as an abstain for now.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Bump for a new page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes; about two times already.