Are there any times when a subjective trope SHOULD be on a main page?

Please excuse me that I'm using one particular page that I happen to be a fan of, but it's to better help me understand some points about this site.

Someone just made a fairly sizable edit to the Todd In The Shadows page, deleting all the subjective tropes.

Now, anyone familiar with Todd In The Shadows knows that he's a pop music reviewer on That Guy With The Glasses.com. Many of the things we see in his reviews are either played for comedy or actually reflect his own personal life. He makes things pretty damn clear to emphasize a point.

For example, In his review of Britney Spears' "3", He wracks his head over trying to figure out the lyrics of a certain line. Those lyrics happen to be "Peter, Paul, and Mary". Used in context with the rest of the song (which is about having a threesome), he starts freaking out over how now he can no longer listen to one of his favorite music groups from when he was growing up without thinking there's some dirty perverted meaning behind every lyric. A fairly clear example of Ruined Forever, set up by Todd himself just to point it out.

Here was the entry on his page that was just deleted.

• Ruined FOREVER: His own childhood after hearing the "Peter, Paul, and Mary" line from Britney Spears' "3". Now he can't listen to their music anymore without thinking there's some perverted meaning to every lyric.

Another example is in his video of Ke$ha's "Your Love Is My Drug", where the video starts off with him recovering from a hangover. He says he needs something to brush his teeth, and someone hands him a bottle of Jack Daniels. "Brush my teeth with a bottle of Jack" is a memetic line from Ke$ha's first hit song that he also reviewed before that. His response? "That.. that's not funny, man."

The entry on the page was:

• Dude, Not Funny!: When he wakes up from a hangover in "Your Love Is My Drug", he asks for something to brush his teeth with. He's handed a bottle of Jack Daniel's and responds with this.

Todd is very opinionated in his reviews, and as tropers who watch him, we tend to merely post HIS opinions from HIS reviews on the site. This is pretty much Word of God for the sake of entertainment in his reviews. So why shouldn't they be listed on the main page?

I can understand for other pages with more solid forms of differing facts from opinions, but what about pages where an entertainer's opinions ARE the facts?

Todd himself is a user of the site from what he's hinted through twitter and stuff. You'd think he'd be deleting these himself if he didn't want them there, right?

edited 15th Nov '10 4:37:10 PM by DRCEQ

They aren't supposed to be deleted. They're supposed to be moved to the YMMV page and it doesn't look like they were.

As for the issue of whether they can be on the main page: this argument comes up over and over, and in fact it's going on in Wiki Talk right now. The end result always reminds me of trying to use past tense in a high school English essay—it doesn't matter what the circumstances are, you're DOING IT WRONG! (I hated high school English, of course, but I'm outvoted here.)

edited 15th Nov '10 5:46:27 PM by feotakahari

I don't think these should be removed. They're used in-story in these videos.

Yep, these are subjectives that are being used in the story, not to describe the story. They belong on the Main article.

It might be clearer if they were in a section of the examples list under a heading saying that. "Tropes used by the story:", for example. This would make it clear to a person doing a subjectives sweep-up that these are the not the things they are looking for.

edited 16th Nov '10 10:11:36 AM by FastEddie

So if a subjective trope is actually used and demonstrated as part of the series' story, it's Ok to keep, but if it's a clear example of a troper's opinion, it should not. Cool. I'm gonna change the page back now, as every subjective trope that was removed actually applies.

No, that is incorrect. The only time subjectives apply on Main articles is if they are used by the characters to refer to some other element within the story itself.

Valid in-universe example of SBIH: "Joe and Bob are watching the Dingo Channel. They observe how horrid it is and how nobody in their right minds would want to watch it."

edited 16th Nov '10 9:00:03 AM by Fighteer

Hang on. Why do we suddenly have these YMMV pages springing up all over? They're kindof a nuisance.

Because Fast Eddie doesn't want Subjective Tropes on the main page because they're natter bait.

Nnnnnot always.

That's true, if they're invoked in work then they can go on the main page.

Yes, always. Read the Conversation In The Main Page, Justifying Edit, and Thread Mode articles. Then observe how those tend to cluster around Subjective Tropes. Anyway, I don't feel like having this debate for the umpteenth time.

"Yep, these are subjectives that are being used in the story, not to describe the story. They belong on the Main article."

Wow, I wasn't expecting that. Thank you.

I just think the YMMV pages will encourage people to put up their own opinions, instead of ones popular in the fandom, which then makes the list entirely pointless, as there's always someone out there that believes the opposite of everyone else (kind of a non-perverted Rule 34).

And, yes, I know this would go better in the other threads, but I honestly don't see them.

they're already doing that. only they're doing it on the work pages. and we don't want that, so we took them off the work pages.

editors learn by example. so, personally, i think we should avoid the risk of someone being too obtuse to get it and going "why'd they let this work have X trope on the main page? CRYING FAVORITISM OH NOES" and adding their own example in some other page, which leads to natter, which leads to cutting the natter, which leads to edit wars. i think we should just leave subjectives in the YMMV tab at all times, even if some cases are objective, and save ourselves the trouble. it's just one more click, is that so horrible? (and yes, i like slippery slopes).

i have a feeling i'm going to be outvoted on this one, though.