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the first criteria says "truly horrendous by the standards of the story. some stories standards require quite a lot for a character to be a CM wile other stories require a lot less. I've talked to the Troper in charge of cleaning out some of the subpages and he/she says that a lot of users seem to forget this detail.
edited 14th Oct '11 3:23:11 PM by brony99
You still harping on this? Which part of the Mod warning didn't you get?
what part of the guy that has more authority on that matter somewhat agrees with me didn't you get?
What guy are you talking about? The guy in charge of that page? That page isn't this thread.
edited 14th Oct '11 6:47:26 PM by NapoleonDeCheese
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episode? There's no way a character taken that lightly (let alone with such relatively mild, seemingly well-intentioned villainy) can qualify as a complete monster. He should be removed from the list.
On a sidenote, I'm surprised to find a Prison Episode that the responses to my YKTTW of it didn't point out...
Yes.
I didn't say he was. I said he's on the list. He is, look. I'm just saying I don't think anyone would seriously list Doofenshmirtz as an example.
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Got it.
In any case, anyone object to requesting that the mods remove the Phineas And Ferb example from the list?
"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
God no, I don't object.
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Three users seem to be in favour so far...
... come to think of it I'll request it now anyway. If for some unfathomable reason more than 3 users decide they want such a comical, and seemingly well-intentioned character, back on the list, it can always be added again later.
"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
SCH-NEIGH-ZEL
Wait: some people consider DOOFENSHMIRTZ a Complete Monster?!!
I hate this trope, I really fucking hate it
"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs Schneizel
That same example is also on the Knight of Cerebus page in case you object to that too.
Yes.
Who said that? I said I don't think anyone would seriously list Doofenshmirtz as an example of a Complete Monster. The villain in discussion from Phineas And Ferb is the Drill Sergeant Nasty from Phineas and Ferb Get Busted.
edited 16th Oct '11 3:53:24 PM by ading
I'm a Troper!!!
...Considering that he pretty much horrifically tortured the title characters, clearly taking a sadistic glee in it, and was not played the least bit humorously throughout the entire episode, the Drill Sergeant counts.
Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes.
Has Brony been banned (or whatever happens when your as annoying as him yet) he is going nowhere with his argument.
edited 16th Oct '11 6:13:32 PM by Envyus
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Turning a bunch of children into donkeys and then kicking them around and throwing them at walls (which the coachman does) is horrific torture. Strangling someone with a car window (which Sykes does) is horrific torture. Branding solitary confinement and water-based aversion therapy "horrific torture" diminishes that phrase even in the context of application to Disney cartoons, if not to real life.
Also, the style of that episode really strikes me as a spoof of the prison genre. I don't think it was played entirely seriously.
edited 16th Oct '11 5:18:15 PM by HiddenFacedMatt
"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
...
~facepalm~
...Ok, any examples that aren't completely obvious? I think most of us can agree on which examples definitely do not count, so let's bring someone up who might actually be worth debating. Zira was a good example; I haven't watched Lion King 2 in a while, so I'm not sure if she counts or not, but I remember her being pretty vile.
edited 17th Oct '11 12:11:27 AM by tropetown
SCH-NEIGH-ZEL
I'd argue that she cared about her children just enough to edge her out of CM territory. She genuinely seemed hurt over her son's death (even if it didn't last long)
but yeah, she's still pretty evil
"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs Schneizel
All right then, so she's obviously out. Anyone else?
SCH-NEIGH-ZEL
Did we reach an agreement on Mother Gothel?
"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs Schneizel
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Let's focus on Zira first. My idea was to go over the characters in the order in which the list presents them. (The only reason I made an exception for the Phineas And Ferb example was because someone else brought him up and he was such an obvious non-example that the sooner he could be removed the better.)
SCH-NEIGH-ZEL
I made my position clear. My standards for Complete Monster are really fucking high (I hate the trope personally)
So Zira to me is exempt from being a Complete Monster because of how much she cared for Scar and her kids.
"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lulu vs Schneizel
Yes, I'd agree; Zira is definitely not a Complete Monster.
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Okay, that's two people backing up that Zira is most definitely not a CM. Edit requested. I'll make the corresponding change to Lion King's YMMV page.
EDITED IN: I'm going to skip the coachman for now, since like with Frollo, he seems to be the level of villain the Disney section was meant for. That video alone seems to drive home all 5 criteria at the same time. Feel free to point out reasons otherwise, but none come to mind for me.
Next on the list after coachman is The Horned King from The Black Cauldron. I have yet to watch anything other than short excerpts from that movie, but for those more familiar with it, would you say The Horned King qualifies?
edited 18th Oct '11 9:49:54 PM by HiddenFacedMatt
"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
A friend of Padraic
Never saw Black Cauldron? Would Padraic (Ratigan) from The Great Mouse Detective be borderline? I mean, he talked about drowning widows and orphans. Or feeding his follower to his cat. Yet, hell, he showed some form of (humans have humanity, so what do rodents have?) with his calm demeanor.
Yeah, Jason Kreis ain't exactly a soccer star.
edited 14th Oct '11 2:53:19 PM by ading
I'm a Troper!!!