Final Fantasy general

That's the one with the rabbit woman with her ass out right?

That's like the only thing I remember about that game.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 26th 2020 at 8:37:24 AM

I don't find XII's gameplay to be any less stimulating compared to the other FF's. It's basically just ATB where you can customize an AI for your party members to automate certain things.

(On Vaan) Biggest issue with that one is lack of development.

I mean the concept of a simple peasant boy being thrust into the middle of the rulling class is one with potential.

He could showcase a silver tongue, or maybe a talent for fighting, or just go the Green Arrow route and make him the down to Earth guy reminding all the big boys that they're betting with people's live with their little insurrection plot.

But no he starts as a loaf of white bread on legs and ends it like a loaf of white bread on legs.

I mean that's sort of what he is. Part of his role in the story is bonding with Ashe and showing her the human cost of the war and the youth of Dalmasca that was lost.

Ultimately he's not a bad character, he's just not at the center of events and should have just been another party member, people have expectations of him being a protagonist when he isn't really.

So I guess I forgot even more of that than I thought.

BTW I singled out Green Arrow because part of the appeal is that the guy is a major Deadpan Snarker, while Vaan is just a whiner.

Also a source of Belligerent Sexual Tension, which is always fun.

But nevermind that, I've heard he gets better in Revenant Wings, that checks out?

Vaan is only whiny for the first few hours. He gets over his resentment of Basch very quickly when he realizes he's a good man and probably is telling the truth about what happened.

Xenoblades gameplay is basically FFXII's but better.

Every problem XII has comes back to its pacing. Nobody receives consistent focus apart from Ashe. Everyone also just stumbles into the forefront of the plot for a minute then vanishes back into obscurity. There's absolutely no party dynamic.

"All the interesting things happen in Arcadia" is totally true. All the Imperial characters are way more interesting because the plot gives them so much more attention and stuff to do. Gabranth has more of a character arc than Basch does.

Having played FFXV, XII really stands out as an oddity and a big mistake. FFX made perfect use of voice-acting to establish interactions between the characters and make them more compelling for us. I love how Tidus says "I'm a Guadian now so watch out!" at the right time in the plot. I love that he says "Don't break any bones, old man" to Auron after he joins the party. I love that if you have Wakka and Lulu in the same party he will go "woohoo" and she'll say "stop kiding around." I love that Yuna will make a distressed, confused sound during the Thunder Plains and Lulu will tell her to focus. And itr just goes on and on and on like that.

FFXIII does the same. Snow and Hope have unique dialogue for each other, same for Sazh and Vanille. They react specifically to each other and what is happening to one another.

And FFXV is practically Dragon Age levels of party banter.

FFXII? Not only are the characters neglected by their own story, they have precisely zero chemistry with each other in battle and their personalities only come through in battle in the way they use certain weapons. So, ya know, it's actually inefficient to have Balthier use a gun because he's slower with them. That's what FXII's combatneeded, things to be even slower.

I like FFXII, by the way. But man oh man id it fucked up its main characters something fierce.

Edited by Nikkolas on Mar 26th 2020 at 9:54:28 AM

@that list of voices in FF 7 R: Hol' up. Gideon Emery voices Biggs? Gideon Emery who voiced Balthier in XII? And whoever typed up that list and and gave examples of actors' previous work seriously thought it more appropriate to reference his work in Dash & Lily, Teen Wolf, and bloody Dragon Age II, over the fact that he was a main character in a previous mainline Final Fantasy game?

Edited by TheAirman on Mar 26th 2020 at 12:32:23 PM

Hey they did the same thing for John Di Maggio, who voiced Wakka, Kimarhi, and Gilgamesh three times.

Speaking of which, think Gil will show up in VIIR?

Edited by dmysta3000 on Mar 26th 2020 at 1:41:53 PM

Also true. But at least for him they put down his actual most famous works.

Where would they add in Gil? Arbitrarily chosen dungeon or cave? Superboss in Wutai?

Actually, when was the last time Gil even showed up, XIII-2/Type-0? I've not played 14 if he was in there.

Edited by TheAirman on Mar 26th 2020 at 12:46:14 PM

I 100% agree that XII had the opposite problem nearly every other FF of great world building, writing and plot but completely forgettable protagonists, which hurts it a lot since this is such a character driven set of games.

x2 Greg is in XIV yes, in all his stoogely glory.

There is also a version of him in XV but like in IX he's not really the same that we are used to.

He shows up in XIV and XV (though a very different version of him).

I imagine they could work him in as a superboss you fight in Don Cornero's arena. I mean it wouldn't be the first time he got inserted into a remake.

Edited by dmysta3000 on Mar 26th 2020 at 1:49:54 PM

@The Airman

In fairness, Fenris looks like he belongs in a Final Fantasy game.

Also DA 2 Supremacy.

To be honest I don't particularly mind that about XII, I don't find the protagonists to be overly bad or anything and frankly the vast majority of JRPG's are character-driven, and most of them don't have dialogue/voice acting and worldbuilding anywhere as good as XII. It's fine for XII to have different strengths.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Mar 26th 2020 at 2:02:16 PM

XIV’s Greg is the V, VIII, XII, Dissidia, XIII-2 version of him. I would say ‘Villain Decay’ but that doesn’t really apply to the goofiness that is Greg.

It’s a plot point across all those games that he is traveling across dimensions, hunting for legendary weapons. In XIV it led him to searching for the spear that leads him to fight us. which leads him to becoming Yojimbo to make money to live and hunt for more weapons.... which led him to dimension hop again to The First..

Edited by Memers on Mar 26th 2020 at 11:44:06 AM

If you remove the main character(s) from each game

• Which party would be the toughest/most powerful?

XIV’s Warrior of Light and his/her’s Full Party static.

Edited by Memers on Mar 26th 2020 at 11:53:59 AM

...wow. I didn't expect that. Never played XIV.

I'd expected someone would say the original party since they like... don't have a "main" and defeated "Chaos."

Meant to rule them out actually. Maybe XIV too since that's online.

Edited by Soble on Mar 26th 2020 at 11:54:37 AM

Thanks to being from an MMO plus expacs, the Warrior of Light from XIV is technically one of the strongest FF protagonists.

And that's not even going into what they could do as a member of the 14th.

So far the Warrior of Light has killed Kefka, Omega, Ruby Weapon, Hades, Ozma, Cloud of Darkness, Alexander, The Knights of the Round, Absolute Virtue, Chaos , Ultros, Cidolfus Orlandeau, and so many more.

Cidolfus Orlandeau being the most troublesome out of them all.

Edited by Memers on Mar 27th 2020 at 12:14:24 PM

Well this is what Garnet and Eiko can do:

I don't think anyone besides the MC's like Cloud or Noctis can stand up to this.

The Wo L shrugs off this [1]

x4 despite being the player character, they certainly are not the main character. The player is the friendly neighborhood Godzilla, the Scions are the main characters with Alphinaud as eventual main.

Edited by Memers on Mar 27th 2020 at 12:26:48 PM

That's not how that works.