Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
I can understand why people are hesitant on the idea of re-looking through G-Editor's candidates, it is a rather extreme option. I think the reason why I am thinking of this is that I still remember that incident from a bit over a year ago where one of G's candidates had missing information about potential care for another person and people were really irritated, saying stuff like G needs to fix this or stop proposing permanently, a person offering to help G-Editor, someone saying they would call the mods if this happens again, etc. Not to mention that it would help see if there are any other candidates that would need to get removed. The fact that there is still information being discovered over a year later is telling me that this is a very severe problem, so a similarly strong solution is fine to prevent that problem from occurring.
Incident: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=12201#comment-305024
Another thing I would like to point out is that (while I don't know for sure) there may be candidates that G-Editor has not seen in a while and thus would not know about any detracting scenes. Thus, G-Editor would not know about what could prevent them and if that gets found out, people would get super mad at G-Editor again. Looking through candidates could help prevent this type of situation from happening. So G-Editor can benefit from doing this as well.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
And wouldn't you know it, another G-Editor-approved character has to get re-looked at again. So there were more candidates that had missing information. Cut Shadowman, he sounds like a sweet person who got corrupted by Dark Aether accidentally.
Edited by Flowman on Jul 6th 2023 at 1:37:22 PM
I have one other cut I think I need to request...
The guy is otherwise awful, but...Shuichi Keido from "Guilty Crown." He's an omnicidal bastard out tod estroy the world out of spite for a dead man who he was jealous of, but his last moments are confronted by his sister Haruka, where he commits suicide by injecting himself with the apocalypse virus.
His dying words? "I said Kurosu lost. But I never said that I won. Now run, Haruka." so she can escape before everything kills her, too.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Sounds like an annoying cut unless anyones got a counter argument.
Also was about to bring this as a concern but I see STAR's beaten ne to it about the Shadowman's agency.
I'd be willing to treat as the typical "corruption" type stuff but with Monty being corrupted yet going down a self preservation route of everyone suffering but him while the Shadowman and the apothicons are out for the destruction of the multiverse, their clashing personalities post dark Aether and Monty being inflicted with it trying to save the Shadowman from this fate is making me think he's a cut.
Edited by WetFlannels on Jul 6th 2023 at 7:42:18 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Woagh
Chop Hel, Keido and The Shadowman.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Cut Keido as I don't see a pragmatic reason for telling a person to run in order to live, especially if Keido is already dying anyways.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, the Keido thing was not you.
Edited by Flowman on Jul 6th 2023 at 1:44:41 PM
I not going to comment on the Shadowman since I’ve EP’d him a Long Time ago we’ve updated the rules regarding moral agency, I wouldn’t know what to say regarding this stance.
But I will comment that I didn’t EP Shuichi Keido that was Very Melon. Anyways I can vote to cut Keido.
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 6th 2023 at 8:43:55 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cut Keido. At least we still have the Psycho for Hire Makoto.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Classy, Refined, Unstable
G the main issue isn't about the agency, it's that you said the Shadowman led the keepers to become apothicons yet the lore states that he was corrupted with them by the dark Aether?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
I never said you EP'd Shuichi Keido G, I was just bringing him up for a cut here.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Cut Hel, Shadowman, and Keido
"No running in the halls!"
I just wanted to make sure that no one gets confused since I did EP someone from that show (Segai Waltz Makoto)
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 6th 2023 at 8:55:06 AM
Not the Eye
Cut Shadowman and Keito
Cut Shadowman and Keido.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
From memory of the show, I don't think there's any issue with Makoto
Cut Hel, Shadowman and Keido
I'm not saying we should go over every CM G has put up (not the least because he's done a lot of them), but at this I'm not sure if I can vote for a candidate proposed from him unless someone else also verifies them, G this has happened too many times
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
I don't really think "he's done a lot of candidates" is a good point. That just means there would be a lot of candidates to look through but that does not mean anything about whether they need to be verified. If they need to be verified, they need to be verified. If not, then they don't need to be verified.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Though if there's only Makoto left, I'm gonna change a few potholes. Current entry first, my proposed changes second:
- Segai Waltz Makoto is a seemingly polite GHQ Anti-Bodies officer who is introduced hanging a man upside down. Capturing the hero, Shu Ouma, who joined Funeral Parlor, he attempts to manipulate Shu to turn against them. During the Funeral Parlor's raid on retrieving the Apocalypse Virus, Segai traps the members in an empty plane and launches the Apocalypse Virus all over Tokyo via a broadcasting tower. Participating in the Loop 7 massacre, Segai uses it in order to manipulate the students of Tennouzou High School into handing over the disguising members of Funeral Parlor. While tracking a scientist, Segai manipulates several civilians who needed a vaccine for the Apocalypse Virus in an office where several of Funeral Parlor's members are hiding before slaughtering them all. Segai subsequently attacks the last of Funeral Parlor stronghold before meeting his end when trying to kill a handicapped girl with a truck.
- Segai Waltz Makoto is a seemingly polite GHQ Anti-Bodies officer who is introduced hanging a man upside down. Capturing the hero, Shu Ouma, who joined Funeral Parlor, he attempts to manipulate Shu to turn against them. During the Funeral Parlor's raid on retrieving the Apocalypse Virus, Segai traps the members in an empty plane and launches the Apocalypse Virus all over Tokyo via a broadcasting tower. Participating in the Loop 7 massacre, Segai uses it in order to manipulate the students of Tennouzou High School into handing over the disguising members of Funeral Parlor. While tracking a scientist, Segai manipulates several civilians who needed a vaccine for the Apocalypse Virus in an office where several of Funeral Parlor's members are hiding before slaughtering them all. Segai subsequently attacks the last of Funeral Parlor stronghold before meeting his end when trying to kill a handicapped girl with a truck.
Moved the Faux Affably Evil so I could pothole GHQ without creating a Chained Sinkhole; potholed Tennouzou and Funeral Parlor; removed Establishing Character Moment to get to 5 potholes.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsNo I mean systematically going over every CM he's ever done would just a gigantic pain in the ass to do
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
What agent is saying is that it's gonna be a long process to do so if we were to go over them all. He is not commenting on the quality of the EPs from the amount he has done.
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
'd.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
FWIW I can vouch for some of them, being somewhat familiar with the works.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Ditto. Let's lay off a bit right now, guys. No piling on please.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Although jw in this case for cutting, when there's been information missing etc, do we still take the OG vote count for comparison with the new cut votes?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Personally I'd be opposed to that.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cut Shadowman and Keido
Aight, Wet mentioned this offhand on the other thread, but I looked at the Call of Duty: Zombies lore again and wouldn't you know it, I think we need to cut the Shadowman. Disregarding that the EP and the entry appear to begin with a falsehood (The Shadowman didn't lead anyone into the Dark Aether as far as I can find), as written in the official Call of Duty: Zombies Timeline:
They're also later described as "tainted by darkness". As much as the Shadowman later revels in his status, the fact that he was corrupted basically on accident, that he was previously described as "sweet, charming, and funny", and the fact that Monty himself was corrupted in basically the same way really makes it seem like the Dark Aether simply can't be combatted, meaning The Shadowman might not have agency.
Am I wrong here? Unless I'm missing something huge, this seems like a pretty big agency issue that the EP majorly glosses over
. What do we think?
Frankly G, no, we really can't. This has gone on way too long and happened too many times to just leave it anymore, and with how often it's happened the possibility of having to doublecheck all of your candidates is simply no longer out of the question.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jul 6th 2023 at 2:27:46 PM