How to list foreign voice actors on character pages

That's... not what anyone is saying at all. The fact is, this is predominantly an English wiki, there's no UI about that. If this were a French wiki, we'd be emphasizing the original language and the French VAs, the same would be true for Spanish, German, Japanese, etc. Choosing to not list voice actors for every language on characters does not mean we suddenly must cut every page for non-english speaking voice actors.

Back to the issue, one problem I have with notes is that it doesn't get rid of the problem, simply sweeps it under the rug... or under the note tag in these cases. For pages with a lot of voice actors, the wall of text is still there, but in a note. There is also still the issue of characters who have multiple VAs for one language becoming a wall of text on its own. Another angle to discuss would be that sometimes this length is due to the actors being listed alongside every single installment they appeared in, so you have things like

Now, we could stop listing the works (although that might be confusing), or that problem could be solved with notes. The problem with that being, we don't want to encourage putting notes within notes (i.e. hiding the works in notes and then hiding the VAs in notes as well).

CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors

It's possible to list all the VAs without it being very long, so we shouldn't cut all lists of foreign VAs just because of those exceptions. That and, it's possible to keep all lists with the exception of the ones that are really long. Granted, Administrivia.Wall Of Text doesn't mention notes atm.

Besides, keep in mind this site doesn't have rules against notability, so, as long the information doesn't break the rules, it shouldn't be a problem, right?

The notability rule applies to works, not all information about those works.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

That's not what that page means and, as said before, we're not IMDB, we're not BtVA. Also, just because something isn't against the rules doesn't mean it's not problematic. That's usually how problems are found and corrected.

E:

Edited by Hello83433 on Oct 18th 2022 at 2:35:54 PM

CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors

Something I forgot to mention earlier: the main reason I want to avoid using notes is because they're not great for mobile use and I would prefer to not create an official policy that encourages them more than necessary.

Edited by Karxrida on Oct 18th 2022 at 11:39:28 AM

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Either that's a blatant contradiction or someone is misunderstanding things. Besides there's the Elephant in the Room that sooner or later the site will have to choose to keep that rule in mind, even if that means the site would end like Wikipedia in that regard.

I don't know how to say this without sounding rude, but, at least to me, this is a weird argument. To me it sounds like, because this is an american site, then the american point of view is the most important one, with any other point of view being easily discardable. At least to me, this argument of yours is a bad one.

We might not be IMDB, but that still doesn't mean that we should ignore information if it is available and can be easily added.

Shouldn't that mean that notes need to be fixed on mobile?.

(x4) If it's such a big deal then it should have been at least mentioned somewhere in the first place. It's also not like we're trying to be like either of those sites which are completely different from TV Tropes, we're just trying to list information.

EDIT: Changing up something with the arrows because someone posted before I could.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Oct 18th 2022 at 11:44:18 AM

This is more of a page layout and elegance problem due to the non-standard formatting of the site. If we were an average wiki running on Wikia or something this honestly wouldn't be an issue, because we could collapse the list on the sidebar thing or add a section about voice actors. We have to prioritize what most of the readership cares about when listing character stuff due to how we present those specific pages and how bloated actor/VA credits can potentially get with just English.

They work fine, they're just annoying to click due to the smaller text size. And depending on the presence of blue links near their physical proximity on the page (very possible in an actor/VA listing) it could be harder.

Edited by Karxrida on Oct 18th 2022 at 11:57:44 AM

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

I also do agree with Megagutsman in that regard, and also I should add that, the reason why TV Tropes exists in the first place was because Wikipedia and IMDB and the like removed that and many other info because "it was not notable" for them, for either that or other reasons.

Edited by luisedgarf on Oct 18th 2022 at 1:58:01 PM

Yeah, notes work fine for me on mobile too.

EDIT: Adding another arrow.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Oct 18th 2022 at 11:59:14 AM

It's not a "blatant contradiction" at all, please tone the hyperbole down a notch.

There Is No Such Thing as Notability means that we will trope any work that exists, from the multi-million tentpole theater releases down to that underground Croatian comic strip that ran for a month. All are welcome here.

However, it does not mean that we will collect every single fact about said works on their page. Every site has a scope of what they cover and ours is the tropes. We are not a site that collects production and casting info, that's IMDB. Despite a few side ventures, our main focus is still tropes in fiction.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me

And can you explain why we have pages about creators, like actors, singers, and the like here?

I get that this site is about Tropes, however, that doesn't explain why the VA(s) are listed in the first place. Also, unless it's part of a trope or is Trivia, we otherwise don't collect casting/production info.

Not sure how that relates to the issue of listing two dozen voice actors on every single character entry.

Edited by laserviking42 on Oct 19th 2022 at 3:08:15 PM

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me

That clearly doesn't apply to all character entries.

With all due respect, what is your point with that post? No one said that it was every character entry, this is about the problematic ones (many of which linked here) which bloat the page.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me

I mentioned that because you used the phrase "every single character entry".

(X8)

Ergo, why I don't see a problem with hiding the bloat under a note. Anybody that clicks on said note is doing so with the purpose of seeing if their dub is listed or not, everybody benefits in that way.

Thing is that not only crediting other dubs's V As can be a good way to inform about said dubs existing, but to link people to said V As own Creator page in a simple way.

Also, TVT also has Useful Notes pages, pages that have nothing to do with Tropes and that only exist to explain something that most people would use Wikipedia or any other source to read about, so this wouldn't be neither the first nor the last time that non-trope-related content exists on TVT.

As for those that have bloat? hiding the non-american ones (that aren't the original dub) in a note would clean that perfectly.

Edited by megagutsman on Oct 19th 2022 at 12:17:01 PM

Useful Notes pages are supposed to help creators learn about things the media discusses a lot so they can do it right. It's not just a "wikipedia lite" section.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

They're still not explicitly about tropes.

Still, it deviates from the main goal of TVT, proving that if there's a good enough reason, any non-Trope content is useful in this page.

Edit:

Edited by megagutsman on Oct 19th 2022 at 12:21:47 PM

I'm not sure the comparison to Useful Notes is apt, because they too have bloated beyond the original purpose of providing info to better understand tropes. However that's a topic for another thread.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me

You do realize America isn't the only country where English is spoken, right? The wiki pages are in the English language; ergo, the English language is what's most relevant to the pages. ...no, that's not why TV Tropes exists at all. That's why you and likeminded people have come to TV Tropes, but as others have noted that's not actually part of our mission, let alone our whole reason for existence.

I'm not opposed to putting this stuff in a note, for the record.