Note: The thread currently has a limit of one post every two hours for non-mod users. Currently, this is hard-coded by the admins, but there are plans to give mods the ability to toggle it without admin intervention. After mods are given the ability to do that, the time limit may be further reduced or removed entirely.
This thread is for discussing the following topics:
- Questions and clarifications about the site's rules and policies pertaining to wiki editing, forum posting, trope launching, and so on.
- If you have an idea for a thread on another part of the forums but aren't sure if creating it would be allowed, feel free to ask here.
This thread is not for any of the following:
- Reporting complaints or concerns about specific moderation decisions (e.g. suspensions and thumps). Report these directly to the admins via the contact form
. Selecting "The Staff" sends your message to the admins only, without making it visible to moderators.
- Queries about thumps applied to your own forum posts (reply to the relevant moderator via PM).
- Ban appeals (use the "Edit Banned" thread in this forum).
- Reporting problems or requesting moderator action in the wiki or forums (use Ask The Tropers or Hollersnote or specialized threads such as "Locked Pages").
- Queries about locked On-Topic Conversations (OTC) threads or banned discussion topics. OTC has its own moderation discussion thread here, and the latest statement on the locked US Politics thread and other banned OTC topics is here. Bluntly, when certain OTC threads and topics have repeatedly caused problems, we're not going to provide forum space to discuss them again until the moderation toolkit is equipped to handle those conversations.
- Cut List challenges and queries (they have their own thread here).
- Requests for changes to the site's code or discussion about such changes', as mods cannot change the code; only the admins can do that. Please direct tech requests to Query Bugs or Query Wishlist, and take other tech-related discussion to the Changelog thread.
- Crowner actions. Please use the holler function instead.
- Discussion about changing or implementing policies. Please use Wiki Talk for that. (Asking whether it's OK to make a specific thread is acceptable; using this thread in place of such a thread is not.)
- Asking about the whereabouts of inactive mods (or other inactive users) before they return, if they return at all. Use the Absent people thread for discussing inactive users.
Posts that use this thread in place of the sections listed in the bulleted list above are off-topic.
We're aware that the Edit Banned thread has a Non-Indicative Name, due to it also covering non-editing suspensions. We're not sure whether the name for that thread can even be edited without breaking the special coding that keeps posting restricted to mods and suspended users, so we're leaving it alone for now, because better safe than sorry.
(Edited Mar 28 2024, adding bullet about OTC and amending layout a little)
Edited by Mrph1 on Mar 29th 2024 at 10:55:20 AM
reconsidering
sadly, if people could follow the instruction "handle this topic with care", we wouldn't need to be banning any topics in the first place
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I understand the moderation issue. I also understand why sone topics are better off not getting their threads or not dwelled upon lest they attract trolls.
I also understand that, at least nominally, this is a wiki, not a forum.
I still feel like saying "be glad you even HAVE forums here, we COULD take away everything except the cleanup threads to make our work easier" is not helping us to believe that axing OTC in whole is not and never was on the table.
Admin
akanesarumara,
I’m not sure why you would think someone is trying to convince you it was never on the table. Of course it’s always an option if it became bad enough. The mods have made that clear and we discussed that option thoroughly. It’s just not currently the plan because we feel like most of OTC is completely fine except for a few problem threads, so it’s much better to just lock them for now until we can come up with a better way to handle them.
This thread is also not the place for that discussion. If you want to discuss OTC further please go here.
Edited by kory on Dec 11th 2023 at 8:40:51 AM
Now monitoring Wishlist and Bugs
Ok thank you for the clarification, I just seemed to recall someone from the staff a couple of pages back repeatedly asking people to calm down and to not imagine extreme measures where none have been considered.
he/him
I think the broad position is still in line with this post.
OTC has never been essential to the site's core purpose, but tropers value it and we've managed to get this far with it running (mostly) smoothly.
One-Track Mind (he/him)
the Retromancer
If someone commits an edit war then immediately undoes their edit possibly realizing their mistake, does it count?
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
No, but I have to ask why you are asking this question at all - have the edit warring rules become so stern that folks think that could count as edit warring?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
the Retromancer
They always have been? It technically matches the "A - B - A" pattern, but since A seems to have changed their mind quickly, I've decided to not ATT it.
Edited by Amonimus on Dec 13th 2023 at 10:37:57 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
I mean, by a literal reading it would be an edit war, just one that the user then undid. It's worth getting the clarification on if someone committing an offense and then fixing it is still considered an offense.
he/him
If someone makes a mistake, notices it, and fixes it before it causes any problems, I don't personally think there would be any need for mod intervention or further action.
However, as with other wiki issues, if this becomes part of a wider pattern of behaviour, we might still want to talk to them.
If someone's regularly making mistakes and only noticing after the fact (or when someone else points it out), we'll want them to be more careful about checking before they make their edits.
And we might also consider how quickly they fixed it, and whether they only fixed it after someone else told them about the problem.
- At one end of the scale, someone might make a change, suddenly realise that they also made the original edit two years ago, and undo the new change within seconds to avoid an edit war.
- At the other end of the scale, someone might make a change that starts an edit war when their original edit was just days or weeks ago. And might not revert it for weeks until someone tells them they're about to be suspended for edit warring.
We would treat those two examples pretty differently, I think.
Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 14th 2023 at 4:35:59 PM
not sure where to put this, but a user in the banned/suspended thread has claimed that their ban was due to a user having a grudge against them; i wanted to know if hollering the post to add evidence that the parties involved tried to engage the banned user repeatedly in the fora and in hollers to explain or ask for clarification only to be ignored, or if it would count as popcorning and beating a dead horse.
Edited by MsOranjeDiscoDancer on Dec 15th 2023 at 2:27:03 AM
hail, holy queen of the sea, you're whirling-in-rags, you're vast and you're sad
Redmess
That user needs to use the support form to make his appeal, I think. If you have further evidence, it's best to PM a mod with that.
Edited by Redmess on Dec 15th 2023 at 10:39:45 AM
Optimism is a duty.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Nah, I think I know who they're talking about and this user hasn't been bounced or anything.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
One-Track Mind (he/him)
Admin
This thread is for asking for clarification about policy. Not requesting or discussing functionality changes to the site. Requesting changes is for the Query Wishlist or you could discuss it in this Yack fest thread
Edited by kory on Dec 16th 2023 at 1:50:07 AM
Now monitoring Wishlist and Bugs
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I mean, what's the point of letting non-users look up troper posts anyway? We've had issues of off-site harassment and stuff in the past, letting people visit the site just to stalk a troper's posts seems entirely unhelpful.
Edit:![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
'd by Kory lol
Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 16th 2023 at 3:21:06 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
the Retromancer
I took the post not as a request but as a disagreement of an already made Query Wishlist being closed, so posting about it there would only get it locked right away. Would it be more of a policy and site interactions question in that case?
Edited by Amonimus on Dec 16th 2023 at 11:27:31 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Admin
If It’s related to site functionality, it goes in the wishlist. If it’s closed then that’s the end of it. It has nothing to do with policy.
It’s in the OP that this isn’t the thread for anything related to site functionality:
- Requests for changes to the site's code, as mods cannot change the code; only the admins can do that. Please direct such requests to Query Bugs or Query Wishlist instead.
Edited by kory on Dec 16th 2023 at 2:03:35 AM
Now monitoring Wishlist and Bugs
Redmess
We could discuss what policy we should have (or already have) for what non=users can do and see on the wiki, forum, and about users. In that regard, I agree that it should be policy that non-users don't get to search through user posts to reduce harassment.
Optimism is a duty.
Admin
Anything that has to do with changing what users and non users can do or see is a site functionality change. So again, not under the scope of this thread. If you have something you think would help in that regard then suggest it in the Query Wishlist.
Edited by kory on Dec 16th 2023 at 4:55:30 AM
Now monitoring Wishlist and Bugs
Hello everyone. I am new to this site so I have a few questions, if you don't mind.
First, for those interested, here is my background. It may help you understand where my questions are coming from: So basically, I am tabletop RPG player who has spent some time looking for a perfect universal system (that is, a TTRPG system that can work in setting). I have found such a system (namely, FATE SRD), and now I'm looking for funny settings to play in.
So what I'm looking for is a database or wiki that aims to list all fictional settings ever, with a short summary of the setting's aesthetics, fantastical/fictional elements, recurring themes, etc. Surprisingly this doesn't seem to exist yet. Well, I think TV Tropes might qualify, given its huge Media database, but i'm not sure about it and that's why I want to ask my questions.
So my questions are the following:
1 - Is there a space on a work page to write information about the aesthetics, main fantastical/fictional elements, recurring themes, etc? I guess most of it is covered by the tropes, but what if there is something that's not easily categorized as a trope? Or are some of the tropes so large that they can encompass virtually everything?
2 - Is there somewhere a list of the "tropes about tropes" (by that I mean tropes likes subversion of a trope, avertion, lampshading, etc) ?
3 - Is there a way to categorize tropes by type (for example, all the tropes related to geographical features?)
4 - What do I do if the work I want to create a page for only has an official edition in French? Do I create a French page, an English page using the french names, or an unofficial translation of the french names?
Thank you for your answers, and sorry if this is already detailed in a rules page somewhere -I couldn't find it.
the Retromancer
1. Potentially the Analysis/ namespace. I'm not confident myself what's the extent of it, but if tropes don't work, reviewing the designs and themes sounds like what that subpage could be for.
2. Playing with a Trope and Trope Tropes
3. No. Examples in theory could be folderized, but it's strongly discouraged. So far we recognize Characters/ subpage for Characterization Tropes and Recap/ for episode-specific situations. There's been talk about the Setting/Worldbuilding subpage but it didn't get a lot of support.
4. With no official localization, use native names and titles where possible.
Edited by Amonimus on Dec 17th 2023 at 10:16:06 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
The problem with The Hashtag That Shall Not Be Named is that it was fundamentally and inextricably contaminated with alt-right misogyny to the point where it could not be brought up safely in any context. From my experience, that hasn't changed. It's true on other sites as well; at least one Discord server I'm on has banned the topic.
It's similar to the abortion debate, or indeed the Israel/Palestine conflict. It doesn't matter what the intentions are: someone will turn it into a shitshow with a probability approaching 100%. Religion vs. atheism is another "fun" one. Elon Musk used to be before he turned off all but the most ardent of his supporters.
I don't think some people fully understand that our forums are not for getting anything off your chest that you want. They never have been. We care about civility and ease of moderation above all else. Blame the people who keep spoiling these topics, not us. If you can't say something that advances the conversation without importing toxicity, don't.
In cases where they arise organically, such as US courts doing something awful again, or someone prominent saying something dumb about Israel on social media, the topics can be mentioned, but they must not be dwelled on.
Edited by Fighteer on Dec 11th 2023 at 2:38:21 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"