Unclear Description (Alt Names Crowner 29 October 2020): So Calization

So, this page is a little uncertain on what it wants to be. The title, laconic and lead section indicate that it's a trope about how many works supposedly set elsewhere end up resembling Southern California because that's where Hollywood is located and many films shot. Half of the article however is about how the same phenomenon happens in other countries with local places.

Also, the page lacks a proper trope list and has just a big pile of generic examples. It has some wicks and examples there, some of which come from non-film media and thus raise misuse concerns.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I always thought of this trope as being a work having elements that are true for Southern California, but not the place the work is set. I don't think it needs to be in a film, since so much media is made/set in California that people assume everything is like that through a process analogous to Eagleland Osmosis.

All the "examples" on the page are just iterations of specific/common ways this plays out. They should be moved to the description (perhaps in a folder to keep it from being too long), and the page should get actual, fictional examples, which could be sourced from crosswicks.

Looking in the wicks, I'm seeing very few uses in works for non-American settings, so I think the non-American examples could just be trimmed.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

Regarding examples, I've compiled a list of examples from wicks (minus ignoring for a moment these examples which were offered in another thread and a rambly Glee example) on the Sandbox.So Calization page. There is also a wick check there, although it's a little uncertain partly due to the description's vagueness but mostly because a lot of examples are about commentary on age of consent laws, which is a bit hard to classify.

I think a bigger question is whether the trope should be SoCal specific or not. We have several other tropes such as Britain Is Only London, Creator Provincialism, Eagleland Osmosis, New York Is Only Manhattan and We All Live in America covering similar concepts. By the by, Laconic.So Calization probably also needs correction; I think that even in fiction folks are aware that not all of Southern California is also Los Angeles.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Yeah, I think tropes like that could cover non-L.A. examples. Looks like there's a decent number of examples in the sandbox.

Edited by naturalironist on Jun 22nd 2020 at 3:36:05 PM

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

Non L.A examples or non SoCal examples?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I don't think that distinction actually matters for the purposes of this trope. It mostly seems to be about things like laws and climate patterns that are broadly the same across the whole southern part of the state. Conflation of L.A. with other nearby areas would fall under Hollywood California, I think.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

Huh? It does matter whether the trope includes examples like the Toronto as stand in for Canada or not.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Bumping to get more opinions.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

What I mean is that I don't think it matters if the page or examples conflate Los Angeles vs. Southern California. For the purpose of this trope, Los Angeles and Southern California should be interchangeable.

But I think the trope should be restricted to features unique to Los Angeles/Southern California being applied to other settings. Not Toronto, Tokyo, etc. features being applied to other settings.

But yes, more opinions needed.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

A bit late, but I agree that this trope needs to be limited to the Southern California version. Anyone else?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

It should also be made more clear that this trope is distinct from California Doubling.

That would need max one sentence. That said, I think that the list of generic examples may fit better on the Analysis/ tab.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I'm not surprised that people also use it for other locations, considering many people probably have no idea what "socal" means (until this thread, neither did I). So I'd expect them to take it as a Newspeak variant on "localization" and use it interchangeably for other areas.

So basically, the most obvious/apparent meaning of the trope name doesn't refer to California.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

TBH, I think this is a pretty important point.

So, need input on whether the examples should be added. And whether we have settled on this being about Southern California.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

So after reading the description and some examples, I think the trope is supposed to be a specific type of Artistic License where works portraying non-Calfornian locations in the US have said locations work under the logic of Calfornia's laws; e.g. death penalty and age of consent stuff. The name seems to come from the fact that LA is in SoCal and the writers are more familiar with their own laws and such.

This is distinct from California Doubling in that CD is only used for pragmatic reasons pertaining to filming locations.

Edited by Karxrida on Aug 9th 2020 at 9:16:34 AM

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Indeed. SoCalization is about works that supposedly aren't set in Southern California looking like Southern California because Hollywood is there, California Doubling is about using specific places in California as stand-in for certain environments. I've added a "not to be confused with" note.

Since this seems to be trending towards restricting the trope to Californiano examples, I've removed the general sentence and am ready to yank the general examples - although I think some of them could fit on Analysis.So Calization and perhaps Analysis.Creator Provincialism.

Regarding the name, I don't feel that the wick check at Sandbox.So Calization indicates that there is widespread confusion about where the trope is about. So I wouldn't endorse a rename.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

(almost) two weeks bump to see if anyone (dis)agrees with the course of action above (shift part of the description to two Analysis/ pages, add the sandbox examples, leave name alone)

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I think that course of action is fine.

Macron's notes

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

I think the name is a case of Creator Provincialism and we should hold a crowner to see if people want it renamed.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

Anyone else on both the rewrite and perhaps a rename crowner?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

As noted, I don't think "socal" is a common term outside of Southern California itself, so I wouldn't object to a rename crowner.

OK, with no more comments I've gone ahead and moved the examples in and the general examples to the Analysis pages. Also attached a rename-or-not crowner.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Rename voting is at (yeas:6 nays:3) 2.00 : 1

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Fewer than 10 votes, more opinions are encouraged.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.