The General Star Wars Thread

I watched that one video where it played all six original films at the same time in preparation for the release of TFA.

I'll say that whenever a new Star Wars film comes out I often would watch the whole Star Wars series. Having said that, it's not a marathon of films, it's more like a several-days affair where I pop in one movie one day then on the next day watch the one after that.

Yeah, doing it in a theatre is a trip. Like, the MCU was basically in "people turning the theatre into a hotel during Thor 2" territory.

You know I'm new to these forums but I was just posting about JJ's Star Trek movie being pretty good, all things considered.

So I guess I'm just gonna add that I actually like The Force Awakens. Problems present? Yes. But I am probably most receptive to this movie of the sequels in general. I can't say I dislike the movie. I mean, there are some things I wish were better but that goes for like anything.

Edited by NightShadow2020 on Apr 23rd 2024 at 7:50:40 AM

I think TFA is fine in a vacuum and perfectly accomplishes what it sets out to do.

It's also a perfect symbol of a profound lack of creativity with the franchise and a source of so many issues that, unless they get handled incredibly skillfully, would more than likely create larger problems down the road.

They were not handled particularly skillfully.

It's kinda like Rebel Moon in that regard. The first movie was... okay. But it was a setup. So if the thing it's setting up isn't worth the setup, it makes the first movie retroactively worse. That's kinda how I feel about TFA in the long run.

I tend to agree, I think, but I'd phrase it somewhat differently. TFA is very competent and well done at accomplishing what it sets out to accomplish. But, even putting aside the other films, that goal (reset the universe) is, in my view, a really bad one. I don't claim that I realized this at the time, but it's what I've come to realize over the rest of the ST.

Part of the problem was fans giving them too much credit, assuming "nostalgia trip with a hundred in-jokes" was just a phase. That's not necessarily the fault of the filmmakers, as they made the movie they set out to make, but fans had deceived themselves into thinking there was more actual storytelling than what was actually in the films. It's the underlying issue with modern franchise filmmaking, movies are advertising the sequels and spinoffs rather than making a coherent individual work.

Thank you, Jabrams -_-

I don't like any of the sequels but I think Last Jedi, as bad as it is, does earn at least a modicum of respect for having some daring ideas. Hell, as badly executed as it was I think that the way it played with Poe Dameron's maverick status was kind of interesting in a vacuum. Since when have you seen a movie where the rebel lead is told to just follow orders for once and not just do what they feel like doing? If done well that's a very fun premise. I wish that was a thing in Ahsoka, where Hera just gets told "No, you can't just break the rules of democracy for your convienience by acting fascist or putting down civilians for not being soldiers at some point" instead of "actually the government is full of secret more fascist people so by all means break the rules of our Republic as you see fit." This bothers the shit out of me and makes me appreciate Last Jedi's message so much more.

Poe: You can't just not tell me the plan!

Holdo: I don't have to tell you everything! I don't have to tell you anything! I don't trust you to use your brain!

Poe: Well can you at least tell me-

Holdo: NO!

Force Awakens probably has the least value to me. But props to anyone who likes it.

Can we not turn this into another bashing round of the Sequels again?

Yeah, not gonna lie I was really put off by Ahsoka's politics with Hera and Senator Xiono. I don't cate how slimy he appears to be later on in Resistance; he was right and the show supporting Hera going openly fascist was disturbing as hell - as was a lot of the fanbase's response to it.

Its a similar ick I get with the Stargate fandom's attitudes towards Senator Kinsey and Kavanaugh^* At least in regards to their first appearances - you can see in real time how the writers had to massively backpedal at the very end of Kinsey's first episode to make him look like a Bible-thumping jackass after he spent the previous 44 minutes breaking down how abhorrent the reality of the show's premise is - its an idea the writers only really revisited once later on when they thought season 7 would be the end.

Edited by TheAirman on Apr 26th 2024 at 4:13:17 AM

What do you mean by calling characters "elf lords"?

There's an XKCD Substitutions extension I have running for shits and giggles, but forgot to turn it off before editing my post. It should say Senator to everyone but me and should be fixed now.

Edited by TheAirman on Apr 26th 2024 at 4:18:18 AM

@Patar 136

Quitting your job, emptying your bank account, selling your house, your car, your wordly position and the clothes on your back, then gambling all that money in lottery is also a very daring move and a great example of risk-taking.

And it is still a bad idea.

................

What I am saying is that "took risks" is not an indicator of the quality of a work one way or another.

Besides bashing Jedi, and portraying old heroes as failures is not something new to the franchise, so Ryan Johnson doesn't even get points for creativity.

It is just that Luke was kept out of it, and for good reasons. 

Edited by jawal on Apr 26th 2024 at 10:19:44 AM

I love a lot of the things that TLJ set up. While you can definitely argue Snoke was underused, having The Dragon (Kylo Ren) take over and become the main villain was a great way of shaking up the formula a bit and also made Kylo Ren into a really interesting character. I think it was a missed opportunity not to follow that up in the sequel (instead replacing his main antagonist role with Palpatine, and I love Palpatine, don't get me wrong, but maybe they should have kept Ren in the role).

"It is just that Luke was kept out of it, and for good reasons."

To each their own, I certainly get why people dislike where his character was taken, but I think Luke was handled a lot better in TLJ then Han in TFA (and I'm saying this as someone who likes TFA). At least Luke was taken in a new direction, while Han just completely regressed into his New Home days. It does have narrative weight, demonstrating the effect that Ren's actions had by tearing apart Leia and Han's marriage and fucking Han's development up, but I'm still not a huge fan of it.

Edited by king15 on Apr 26th 2024 at 9:28:13 AM

Well, as was discussed before, the problem with Kylo Ren as Big Bad, is that we saw him lose, get humiliated, throw a tantrum, and cry too many times since the first movie.

The main villain in such a movie needs some type of "dark dignity" and competence to bring to the table; this is a larger-than-life space opera, after all, not a story about an "incel mass shooter" as some fans like to call Ben.

But this is just me.

.................

Of course, I don't like Palpatine being brought back either, but oh well.

Anyway,  Duel of the Fates has Kylo as the main villain. YMMV, if it is better than what we got.

.................

As for Luke? Yes YMMV in that too, but to me, the Happy Ending Override to the OT cast in general and Luke in partuclar is the worst aspect of the ST.

Without that it would have been "just" a trilogy of bad movies easy to ignore.

Edited by jawal on Apr 26th 2024 at 10:47:19 AM

For what it's worth, with the "Risk-Taking" element, I'd actually compare it to Solo rather than Abram's films. TLJ manages to be a much more interesting movie than Solo, which is So OK, It's Average.

With TLJ I think the big problem with it is mostly that it breaks up the main cast, when character chemistry is one of the things that really works well in the ST. I think this is actually a bigger problem than a lot of its specific plot twists.

I would say its depiction of Luke would have worked better if they didn't also kill him off at the same time.

Killing off Snoke was an interesting choice, but I think Kylo wasn't quite set up to be a main villain adequately.

To be fair, Empire also split up most of the main cast. Though granted, they spent much more time together in a New Hope then the cast of TFA, so it wasn't such a problem. And that isn't to put all the blame on Abrams, Johnson should maybe have responded by having the main cast be together more (though given where TFA ended, I don't really know how he could).

I really like Ren as a villain, and personally disagree that him being 'whiny' devalues his ability to be the main villain. If anything, it could add a degree of instability that could contrast greatly with Palpatine's collectiveness (another way in which having Ren remain main baddy would have helped to differentiate the sequels from the originals). Though granted, while I think the concept and design of the character is cool, I think the main reason I love him is due to Adam Driver's performance (seriously, that man could read the phone book and make it threatening).

Edited by king15 on Apr 26th 2024 at 9:43:40 AM

I could never really take Kylo seriously as the main villain because once he became the last living blood skywalker, I just couldn't believe that they were going to leave him as a villain. If there was like a cousin or something then yes I could believe that they would have left Kylo as a villain but as the only remaining skywalker yeah "Like you would really do it."

I’m more pro-sequel than many but I will confess I’d be anti-sequel had they left in a single profoundly bad idea that was ultimately rejected:

Originally, the character who sells Finn and Rose out to the First Order in TLJ was going to be LANDO, having reverted back to his former amoral huckster persona.

That would’ve been enough to take the Happy Ending Override elements well over the line of “downright spiteful.”

Edited by HamburgerTime on Apr 26th 2024 at 5:47:23 AM

Happier subject time!

The “Shadow Cave” (or whatever it was called) from ESB. If Luke had chosen to entrust Yoda with his saber before entering, would he have had the same “vision quest”? Or would something different have played out?

Also, what if another Force-user entered; would they experience a similar event?

Rey had something similar fighting herself on that ship. I'm thinking it's kind of a Dark-side-doubt hallucination thing.

Also, my thoughts playing Republic Commando: fun, but I had to put it on easy because those elite enemies just hit too hard.

And I like the ability to command your squad, but the lack of cutscenes kinda disappoints me

Also it's weird that the clones have different voices and personalities—it's interesting, but it doesn't seem natural.

Dark Side doubt hallucination or just that the place is suffused with so much bad Force juju that it causes that sort of thing.

There was a What If? comics when Luke failed to destroy the Death Star in Yavin IV leading to the Empire's victory and to Leia being captured and trained by Vader (though Luke thought she was dead).

Luke went with Han and Chewbacca to Dagoba to train with Yoda.

He enters the cave once and it passes like in ESRB, except that he discovers Leia's face beneath the "Vader" he defeat, only to be backstabed by the "real" Vader.

....................

Since Luke doesn't leave for Bespian in this timeline, he completes his Jedi training, becomes more calm and patient, and enters the cave a second time without weapons, as Yoda instructed.

He sees visions of his mother and the Prequels events.

..................

By the way, this is also the same story where Yoda crashes the Death Star over Palpatine's palace.

Edited by jawal on Apr 27th 2024 at 2:31:03 PM

I don't know what that is but that is downright hilarious.

Anyway, sorry I missed the sequel discussion. One thing that I like about Force Awakens that goes underappreciated, is that the characters... are pretty cool.

Rey is a bit generic but so is like most protagonists from 90s action flicks. Daisy Ridley is at least showing a shred of human emotion most of the time. Finn is probably one of my favorite characters, this former stormtrooper who joins the Rebellion for selfish reasons. Poe is a nice homage to fans of Wedge Antilles, as if somebody was like "yeah, make a pilot a main character." Compare this to Rose from Last Jedi who has nothing to latch onto of interest and is probably the worst sequel character in a vacuum.

And the snowtrooper themed First Order troopers really look badass. I kind of wish they were just the regular design honestly. It looks a lot more distinct.

You ask me? Last Jedi was the worst sequel. Force Awakens is just eye candy but it did set out and accomplish what it meant to do: be A New Hope 2.0, the pallet cleanser that just resonated with me in 2015 in a way that hasn't really been matched since. And I would rather take eye candy personally than take overcomplicated nonsense that Johnson ultimately failed to communicate.