This thread is intended for a civil, focused discussion on the various impeachment proceedings of President Trump and others in the administration.
Keep in mind that this is a narrowly focused thread, created to more closely manage this topic of discussion. The pros and cons of said impeachment were soft-banned in the General US Politics thread
for a few months, due to incessant arguing. However, there is a high desire to discuss said events and it is of such high prominence that we are willing to give this devoted thread a try.'
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This thread doesn't have to be a case of Why Fandom Can't Have Nice Things, but it will be, if necessary.
Edited by nombretomado on Sep 26th 2019 at 5:19:24 AM
Reminder that the US definition of treason is very narrow (unless the US goes to war, you have to directly fight against it or openly join a terrorist organization fighting the US, and even the courts might use other charges), and intentionally so. And it would take Congress to narrow it, which I doubt is on Pelosi's agenda.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Wouldn't make it to the Supreme Court. It's highly unlikely that a DC federal court would take two looks at a treason allegation before laughing in Trump's face.
Hell, Trump's actions are unlikely to qualify as treason. (We're not at war with Russia.)
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
You don't need it to be treason to be horrifying. Look at Chelsea Manning.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Disasturbator
I see that Rudy has been subpoenaed to appear before Congress.
I'm not sure that is the correct move.
Rudy will turn the whole thing into a circus, and I think that will damage the overall credibility of the Impeachment hearings.
I mean, if you want him to confess to the crimes just shove him onto cable news.
Student of Story
I'd like to believe that if Trump ordered an actual law enforcement group to do the job, nobody would follow through. And that if he tried to do a Delegation Relay where, say, he told Barr to arrest Schiff and Barr then told it to the next person down the line, that before it ever got carried out someone would run to the attention of the press.
I'd like to believe all that, but given the circumstances... I just don't know.
Edited by TheWanderer on Sep 30th 2019 at 6:47:33 AM
| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Whatever Rudy does I hope it's not public. I would die from a fatal dose of secondhand embarrassment.
i. hear. a. sound.
Figure of Hourai
That Giulani is still able to operate as a lawyer baffles me to no end. This is the same guy who has been recorded as questioning Obama's actions during 9/11 despite having been the mayor of NY at the time. How do you not disbar someone for being so out of contact with reality?
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Disasturbator
> How do you not disbar someone for being so out of contact with reality?
He's got lots of friends in high places to make sure he'll never get disbarred,being Mayer of New York definitely helped
New theme music also a box
Who Am I?
But he just might end up in jail this time.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Try again with that comment
Her treatment was horrifying and she deserves to be free. If you disagree, I don't have anything further to say to you.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Oh, bother.
Manning wasn't convicted of treason. She was charged with it, but she didn't get declared guilty of it. Probably because they determined she wasn't trying to aid any specific hostile foreign power.
If she had been convicted of treason she'd already be dead. Treason carries the death penalty.
From Politico: POLITICO Playbook: What Pelosi is telling vulnerable Dems about impeachment
Pelosi is advising vulnerable Democratic members to emphasize that it's about saving the Constitution.
Edited by M84 on Sep 30th 2019 at 9:58:16 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
She/Her Pronouns
Charles point was explicitly not that what she did was treason, it was how she was treated that was horrifying.
And I'm with Charles, incidentally. Her treatment was horrifying, and she deserves to be free. If anyone disagrees, I really have nothing more to say.
Edited by AzurePaladin on Sep 30th 2019 at 10:16:32 AM
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
I also said that they wouldn't have to charge Whistleblower X with treason to make the rest of their life a nightmarish hell.
As per Chelsea Manning.
A person not charged with treason that has been relentlessly tortured and hounded by the government.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Oh, bother.
Why was Manning even brought up in this thread? She has nothing to do with impeachment.
And as bad as the treatment she got was, it at least wasn't the death penalty. Which she would have gotten if she had been convicted of treason.
Edited by M84 on Sep 30th 2019 at 10:20:09 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
@M84: Last time on TV Tropes Politics:
Trump has accused his accuser of treason. Someone said "that's pretty silly, as it clearly isn't treason. That accusation is going nowhere!"
Charles responded with something to the effect of "Yeah, well, I'm worried. Even if they don't literally find them guilty of treason, they can still do terrible things to the whistleblower, like they did to Manning"
Will this tangent go anywhere? Will Charles Phipps' argument be understood or salvaged? Will M84 continue to be disgusted but unsurprised? Find out, on the next episode of TV Tropes Politics.
Edited by Protagonist506 on Sep 30th 2019 at 7:22:17 AM
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Basically, I fear for any whistle blowers in America since the Bush Administration.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
I think it's a valid fear in this case, as I can see Trump going pretty far to hurt the whistleblower.
Having said that, he's strangely in a position where it'd be hard to do so. I have heard of Trump hiring the mafia before, though he couldn't do that from where he's at very easily.
Mafia: Great, Don. But uh, why'd you bring those guys.
Secret Serviceman: Uh, yeah, I'm gonna have to arrest you.
Of course he has other contacts and ways of hurting the guy, though I do think it's not in his own interests to do so. It's basically a revealing cover up. Not that he wouldn't do it anyways, just that doing so would hurt him even more.
Also, it does help that the whistleblower probably has powerful friends themselves along with major public support, especially if Trump does get impeached. There are some people who are going to become a lot more powerful thanks to this whistleblower, and I can see them keeping their new best friend safe. And doing so is honestly a good political move, anyways.
For example, if I were running for president in 2020 for the DNC, I'd make releasing the whistleblower a campaign promise if he was jailed.
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Oh, bother.
That's the downside to being a public servant like the President. Everything you do faces a lot more scrutiny than if you were a private citizen.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Trump doesn't need the mafia. All he would have to do is publicly dox the whistleblower, make some statements that TOTES AREN'T suggesting a violent course of action be taken, then just sit back and put his faith in far-right extremist terrorism.
The threat to the whistleblower isn't Trump directly. It's his legion of bloodthirsty followers. Despite his bluster, there is no way in Hell they would actually be able to launch a Civil War against the country for very long. But murdering one guy? Yeah, they can do that.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 30th 2019 at 11:52:44 AM
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Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
TN is covering it.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Surprise surprise, Pompeo is refusing to cooperate with the subpoena. I really don't like that guy.
Who Am I?
Couple of points here. Trump is posturing to his base. He's put zero thought into how or even whether to follow up. But some flunky further down the chain might leak something.
The other side of the coin is that this whistleblower is very likely a career CIA employee. Not the type of person I would want pissed off at me.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Quoting Fighteer:
Can't McConnell just schedule the trial for 2025 and refuse to allow even debating the trial on the Senate floor?
Edited by Ramidel on Oct 1st 2019 at 9:04:51 AM
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
Part of me wants it to happen because it's the most blatant overreach of presidential power imaginable and absolutely would be a case of the cover up being worse than the crime. Most of the reason that Trump gets away with half of his stuff is that it's not followed through, either in a "Just Joking" Justification way or that someone else doesn't commit the crime he ordered.
... that said, a part of me is terrified of the very slim possibility he actually could get away with it. With at least 2/9 of the Supreme Court literally thinking "the president can do no wrong," the fact that's more than zero is actually terrifying.
Edited by Larkmarn on Sep 30th 2019 at 3:18:25 PM
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