Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (spoilers obviously)

Thing is, though, I think all of these characters are ultimately going to be remembered and discussed through the lense of Rise of Skywalker. You can't really discuss the characters of Rey, Ren, Finn or Poe without confronting the way their journies end, and how that retroactively frames how their journies started. And it's not a favourable look for any of them.

Rey? Well, the end of her journey is angsting over and overcoming her Evil Genes, something that was brought up in this very movie and was not a thing until now. It frames her journey as one composed of U-turns, not one where there is a clear direction. Ren? Well, after being offered redemption and rejecting it in each of the preceding movies, it turns out that third time's the charm, and he accepts it. His crimes are then immediately brushed off because it turns out Kylo Ren and Ben Solo are actually ontologically different people. Finn and Poe? Well, neither of them really gets a character journey to speak of in this film (Finn especially), so ultimately their journies just kind of stopped in TLJ and now they're just here for the ride.

What, ultimately, is going to stick with us about these characters? I'd contend that none of them has any kind of consistent character arc that organically develops over the whole trilogy. All of them are played by charismatic actors, so there's some joy to be had in just hanging around with them, but it's a hollow experience knowing that these characters don't really go anywhere. You don't get the feeling of a long-lasting familiarity, friendship or connection that you get with better-realized protagonists.

What's left then? Their designs? Well, none of them really look all that memorable. Do they have individual character moments or good individual lines that will be well-remembered? Not really. I mean, pretty much the only line of dialogue that I remember from Rise of Skywalker is "And I am all of the Jedi!", which I remember more for being lame and unearned. And "They fly now!", which I mostly remember for being repeated three or four times in a row, giving it the air of a Forced Meme.

When I think of the strong feelings people have right now about Kylo Ren, I can't help but think of Edward Cullen, and how less than a decade ago, people had very strong opinions about him, but who was very quickly forgotten by popular consciousness once he was no longer appearing in multi-million dollar blockbusters every few years. Unless Disney takes special care to keep Ren's brand alive for time immemorial, I expect him to be similarly forgotten in a few years.

So, who is the founder of the new Jedi? Cal after a while? Ashoka? Ezra?

The fact TROS happened and ruined them won't mean that they are forgotten about.

If nothing else, people will talk about how Rey and how her character was butchered is a perfectly good example of why to not pander to fan complaints. Ben being when people started to really hate the Redemption Equals Death trope.

The fact a character is wasted dosent mean peoole will forget them, quite the contrary in a fandom like SW it'll become a Never Live It Down til the end of time.

People keep saying either the film or the characters will be forgotten, no, they wont. The simple context of Star wars as a franchise is enough to guarantee that, At worst they'll become age of ultron where people just don't talk about it a lot.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 23rd 2020 at 5:21:13 AM

My running theory remains Cal, Ezra, and/or Ashoka will run into Baby Yoda and that will be the genesis of an actually successful Jedi Order.

Edited by Beatman1 on Feb 23rd 2020 at 10:19:35 AM

thats if Baby Yoda survives...

They'll walk the ST back by revealing that Luke does indeed have a biological child but It was with a character that ran off when she discovered she was pregnant... or maybe that was her goal all along!

and is in one of the isolated parts of the Galaxy

the Hapes Cluster for example

God, I hope not. That'll give someone else down the line an excuse to base another saga around "BUT MUH SKYWALKER LEGACEEEEEH!!1" faux-drama, which is exactly what helped ruin The Rise of Skywalker.

Just let it go. The happiness of the ending isn't determined by whether there's someone running around with Shmi Skywalker's genes. Especially if it's someone who never even met Luke Skywalker.

Must I remind that this is the same fandom that spent a decade and a quarter whining about the prequels?

People can try and say these will be forgotten, but Were gonna be talking about these for the rest of time.

Also, there is no "grand Skywalker legacy"

The most any Skywalker has done is fix either there own fuck up or fuck ups made by other Skywalkers.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 23rd 2020 at 5:31:01 AM

It's time for the skywalkers to end.

I think there's a difference between the failures of the prequels and the sequels. The prequels failed in presentation and execution but at least had some ideas and a consistent plotline at the centre of it. And the failures of the prequels were at least memorable — people are still quoting lines like "I don't like sand" and "I have the high ground", even if it's not for flattering reasons. And people are also quoting some lines that do arguably manage to just be good. The prequels are certainly not unmemorable, whatever their faults may be.

The ST is different. The presentation and execution is perfectly fine, but it's in service to a whole lot of nothing. Being uninspired and workmanlike in that way is exactly how a film falls into obscurity. Of course, you are correct that being connected to a never-ending mega-franchise like Star Wars means that these films won't outright be forgotten. But I expect that they will indeed not be brought up very frequently or discussed when the dust settles.

The lack of memes is already pretty telling, I think. In the Fountain of Memes that is Star Wars, do any lines of dialogue from the ST get regularly quoted or repeated in the same way that pretty much every line of dialogue from the OT and PT?

I really don’t want Kylo to be the last Skywalker so fuck it reveal that Luke had a kid who’s currently a doctor or something with their own family.

They don’t have to be important or anything, it’s just nice knowing things won’t end with Kylo dragging everyone down.

does quoting Rose count?

"I wish I could put my fist through this whole lousy beautiful town.

I just refuse to allow Kylo Ren the satisfaction of murdering his entire family. He does not deserve to be the end point, he deserves to be the forgotten point.

It’s like a spite living.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 23rd 2020 at 7:49:08 AM

Seeing as she may as well have been Thanos snapped, no.

Well, you're in luck, because Kylo Ren isn't a Skywalker at all. He's a Solo, and his mother was an Organa. The last proper Skywalker was Luke. He's the last person who actually identified as one and used the name.

Seriously, the idea that Kylo Ren is upholding some great legacy of a name that he never used, one that was used by a man he never met, is already kind of shit. As is the fact that poor Leia gets treated basically as a link in the chain of the Great Skywalker Lineage, even though she never adopted that name, never had any positive relationship with her biological father, and grew up identifying as an Organa, with loving parents who bestowed that name on her.

The fact that her son is squarely identified as carrying on the legacy of Leia's estranged biological father, rather than her legacy — the legacy of the House Organa (which ironically, actually is a noble house rather than just Plot Nobility) is honestly pretty problematic.

Edited by DrDougsh on Feb 23rd 2020 at 7:51:12 AM

It is never explained why he's such a vader fanboy too.

Again making Kylo the only OT kid over emphasized his place.

Leia is basically fucked over

Rey has to complete her Jedi Journey!

Leia is the only one who doesn't falter in her goals... well cept Last which shows her out of touch but thats Lasts the Resistance just Suck overall

Basically He is Ben Solo but his relationship to Luke and Anakin overshadows everything to the point you wonder why They didn't just make him Luke's Kid

atleast that wouldn't be copying a Legends plot point and Anakin doesn't even Show up... He'll talk to Rey but not Ben?

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Feb 23rd 2020 at 9:59:35 AM

Well you see the reason he doesn't talk to kylo is because....

I got nothing.

I mean, can you really blame him? I wouldn't want to talk to him either.

You can't use the force to yell at your grandkid for being an unimaginably worse fuck up than you.

Anakin couldn't make it because his contract expired.

Force spanking is one of the lesser known force abilities...

Look the Reason why Qui-Gon can't communicate except is specific moments is He is still troubleshooting the force ghost trick and the Forces is really out of balance due to the Darkside's overgrowth

The Force ghosts clearly reach out the Rey, Hell she has a vision

____

Cause Ben logically can't both be idealizing Vader and be a fundamentally good person

which is what the Narrative wants you to believe

Unlike Vader, Ben is constantly given a pass, Snoke manipulated/ corrupted him!!!

Honest question, why do people talk like Luke ever tried to kill Kylo?

Did I forget a scene or something? He never actually tried to kill Kylo. It's one of the most annoying things to come out of the Last Jedi discourse. People taking legit criticisms and flanderizing them to make their point sound more potent.

On a Doylist level, I imagine the reason why we never got an Anakin Force Ghost was probably just another case of Prequel-phobia. They didn't want to have Hayden Christensen, one of the most widely mocked elements of the prequels, appearing on screen and stirring up bad memories. That, and having Anakin's Force Ghost appearing in that form would be legitimizing the unpopular change in the Special Edition of switching out the original actor.

I think it'ss a shame, because it might have been legitimately interesting to see Christensen get a stab at playing Anakin with more natural dialogue and better direction.