My Little Pony - Generation 5

@Sponge Guy 11: Either the Windigos were permanently destroyed by all the friendship magic in the FIM finale or sealing away magic kept them from returning.

And the issue isn't G5 undoing G4's ending, that's normal for sequels, it's falling to give a adequate/worthwhile explaination for what happened making it seem pointless.

And G5 could work as as G4 sequel if it explained why the Elements of Harmony, School of Friendship, and Young Six (which stopped this in the finale), failed to do so here.

Not to this extent, it isn't. We're talking about entire generations of ponies living and dying believing that the other tribes are and always would be their enemies, and accurate knowledge of Equestrian history had been just about completely erased from the public consciousness. For a normally lighthearted work such as My Little Pony, that just seems needlessly bleak.

Or if the plot had been about Sunny and her friends working to prevent the breakdown of pony race relations. Hasbro would still get to advertise "themes of diversity and inclusion", and fans wouldn't have to deal with everything Twilight accomplished going right down the toilet. Also if Hasbro hadn't sold off the rights to G4 so as to limit the extent to which they could actually treat G5 as a sequel - you could scrub all references to G4 from what we've gotten with minimal impact on the plot..

At any rate, I've long suspected that the writers have been intentionally light on details because they know full well that there's no logical explanation here that doesn't make Twilight and friends look like colossal screwups. Especially after Sunny defeated Opaline in magical combat despite having relatively little experience with magic - I find it very difficult to believe that "Blast Opaline with friendship lasers and lock her in Tartarus" wasn't an option.

Overall, it seems that making G5 a sequel has done more harm than good.

Prominent G5 You Tuber who has asked the G5 staff questions in the past said that two officials of the MLP team told him that they’re considering a second 3D G5 show.

If it explained how Opaline negated the Elements of Harmony and School of Friendship/Young Six, then she'd be a step up enough to make it plausible. That's more mature/complex than what the show has ever done successfully.

The ANG creators said they didn't have an explanation at the time. I assume it's only afterward they realized the problems with integrating it as well as the legal reasons, because why else make it a sequel given how little it added and the obvious problems?

Any reason to think the hypothetical new 3D wouldn't instead be G6 or some other reboot, given they've lost faith in G5 (MYM ending, G5 no longer getting advertisements, TYT being continued for 2 years which is how long it took to come up with the reboot).

This poll puts Opaline at 5th place out of 12 for most compelling villain motivation, low but higher than expected given the complains against her.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Feb 5th 2024 at 1:08:10 AM

The worst part is that they throw in some seemingly saving throws with the 1000 years timeskip only to reveal that the divide and the heroes failing at everything began like less than a week after the finale so they just held everything together with duct tape until the whole thing crashed and burned. And of course, Opaline either having massive plot armor or the Mane Six and pals being even worse protectors of Equestria than Celestia

Technically it's not a saving throw if the length of time was planned from the get-go as opposed to an after the fact fix.

And even if we still accept that explanation from the comics as canon (discrepancies include Twilight's size and Spike's age), the issue is it's only half an explanation as ignoring the reasons it shouldn't have worked. The changelings replacing everyone in the S6 finale shows this was a problem in the show as well.

If we want to have a productive discussion rather than reiterate complaints, maybe we should ask why to the creators It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time? (If just G4 pandering they decided against using version of G4 characters.)

Gonna ask again, do you all prefer to see Gen 5 as more of an alternate "what if" future (like how Ben 10 and Simpsons have multiple futures) rather than the definitive one for Gen 4? After all, it does make it less depressing how everything the Mane 6 accomplished in Gen 4 fell apart by the Gen 5 time. Plus rights issues make it easier to ignore Gen 5 being canon to Gen 4.

Seeing it as an alternate future requires a possible Point of Divergence. Nothing in G5 satisfactorily lends to that nor have I seen any fanworks/fan theories deal with the matter that way. (Might Fanwork-Only Fans apply to G5 given it's had practically no notable fanfics unlike G4?)

I deal with it the same way I deal with the G4 continuity errors and inconsistencies between MYM and TYT (TYT is effectively G5 with the G4 continuity removed, has that been better received?): Do not care or get vested in ththat aspect, it is clearly not actually important to the stories it's telling and the metric it's to be enjoyed/judged by, and what good/salvage part the story has are other aspects than continuity.

Had some thoughts about how to fix the comics version of events:

• Have the Mane Six be Granny Smith's age, thus we'd get 50+ years of peace, enough who haven't live though the S9 finale to plausibly fall for Opaline's lies, and the M6 being past enough their prime to justify failing to stop them/do more.
• Have Opaline destroy the School of Friendship with the Young Six amongst casualties, thus establish her as a step up in threat from prior villains, damage harmony nullifying the Elements, and causing relations between the races to break down.

Honestly that bit with the Young Six sounds a bit too dark for a brand still ultimately aimed at little kids.

And that's the problem with the Happy Ending Override. The stuff that could have adequately explained it/stories that could have made it worth it were more mature than what it's willing to cover.

Avatar: The Last Airbender had that as the premise, episode 3 confirming genocide and even showing the bodies. Other cartoon have dark stuff like such. Why can't that work here for MLP (especially given how popular darker/more mature fanworks were)?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Feb 5th 2024 at 10:24:36 AM

Avatar was an original IP at the time, MLP is a decades old IP. I think they're a lot stricter on dark content for stuff based on pre-existing IP than original IP.

Fair. Then:

• What else could have happened to the School/Young Six to explain why they weren't able to turn things around like the S9 finale?
• What about merely imply it happened like with Applejack's parents? (Or is implying a specific cause over the line that made it work?)
• Why even set it in the same universe if it can't mature to match the now more mature fans who grew up with G4 that this was supposed to appeal to?

Don't forget there were rights issues with Gen 5 referencing Gen 4 since Gen 4 is still owned by Discovery Family. Looks like the Gen 5 creative team Didn't Think This Through when making Gen 5 a continuation.

If they had the rights, what would they do differently?

Latest TYT has some surprise nods.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Feb 15th 2024 at 10:30:09 AM

Is there anything you liked about G5, besides the movie?

And Misty's arc?

Are you asking to fans in general of just someone in particular?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Feb 18th 2024 at 3:51:37 AM

Fans in general.

Unfortunately, besides Misty, anything they'd want to like (satisfactory G4 connections, exploring relationships in-depth) are not being provided. What we get being too unsubstantial or too little to late, thus the audience apathy on this wiki?

So OK, It's Average almost certainly applies. Thoughts about Critical Backlash (those who like G5 thinking the hate it gets is unfair)?

Tell your tale had some cute ideas but I don't care for the art style and the short length makes it hard for there to be any meaningful developments. Haven't seen anything but clips of make your mark. A new generation had some potential and nicer animation but overall failed to make a big impression on me. I do like Izzy though.

So why did Boulder Media not produce Tell Your Tale and Make Your Mark like they did for A New Generation?

Hasbro sold them as part of a corporate restructuring.

But I don't see how an animation studio would have changed the writing problems of the post-movie works.

And I find the issue with TYT is less length, but whenever it does something interesting it's forgotten afterwards.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Feb 20th 2024 at 5:48:29 AM

Well, The Lone Alicorn short is now teasing the possibility of finding out the whereabouts of other alicorns like Twilight, Celestia, Luna, Cadance, and Flurry Heart.

We'll see how well it follows that up.

On the subject, while G5 definitely fits So OK, It's Average (unless you disagree), any objections to adding Critical Backlash as there are those who find the flack it gets from G4 fans unfair (even if not as good still enjoyable and overlooking G4's flaws)?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Feb 24th 2024 at 4:33:36 AM

I'm trying to get through this show, but it's becoming a bit of a slog. Watched Top Remodel, and got angry at just how boring and nothing-burger it all was.

Everyone suddenly remembers that the factory was a Thing, and loudly wonders why they just forgot about that. Everyone suddenly remembers that Sprout was the villain of the movie and they really dislike him. They can't seem to decide whether his factory (which it wasn't even in the movie) was repossessed by the city or not. Sunny very confidently says it is, and clearly they all went there with that knowledge, but somehow Sprout calls that into question by claiming that it is, and suddenly this is a "conflict".

They do another remodelling of some place with a plot that was already done twice in G4, and at least once in G5, you guessed it, too many ideas all at once don't work! And then they don't even really resolve it before the end of the episode. Not for a lack of time, but that time is mostly wasted on little plot snippets that don't really go anywhere.

The factory is infested with pigeons flying rats, and of course Hitch is a scaredy cat boy while the girls aren't. Hitch and Pipp sing some inane song about working together, even though they are empathically not the ponies working together on the remodelling, and this somehow leads to the rats going outside. It's such a throwaway generic nothing of a song that doesn't even fit the tiny plot it is supposed to resolve.

Oh, and the rats diss Pipp's music because they have heard it a thousand times over already, and they're sick of it. That made me laugh so much.

Pipp is doing her investigation, and comes to the grand conclusion that the powerful whatever-crystals must have been made by an alicorn. Just because they are powerful, I guess. Sure, why not?

Oh, and Oplaine reminds us why she needs to kidnap Sparky, and Misty ruminates on whether or not she should do it, and then she decides it does.

It is boring episodes like this that make the show lose me. I hope it gets better soon.