Really a Useful Note: Oxbridge

I'm pretty sure the page on Oxbridge is actually a useful note. It is written in the format of a useful note, it is even in a useful notes index, and yet it is in the main namespace. The only reason I can think of why it is in the main namespace is that it is in the Hollywood atlas index. Even so, I am pretty sure this is meant for the useful notes namespace. Sorry if I am doing something wrong. This is my first TRS, so please bear with me

It looks like it may have intially began as a trope for schools in fiction that sounded similar to Oxford or Cambridge but most of the wording makes it seem like it would be more fitting for useful notes. Maybe split the trope part if we consider it tropeworthy and make what remains a useful notes page.

I think there is a tropeworthy aspect, where someone has doors opened for them, or great expectations placed upon them because they've been through one of the prestigious colleges of the setting (and the trope mentions that Japan and the US have their own versions, too).

So, there seems to be some kind of overarching Prestigious Schooling trope going on where, where someone in a work is insanely skilled and driven, and/or well-connected, and it's because of the prestigious education they received, or someone is brought in because of how prestigious they look on paper, but they disappoint in person — either because they faked their qualifications, or they 'bought' their qualification (i.e., didn't earn it).

In the later case, they may be contrasted to the character who has the real talent but who didn't go through such a prestigious schooling, and so is regarded as inferior solely on the schooling grounds. In short, the School represents talent and/or perks that those who don't go through the school either struggle to prove or obtain.

To give one example from a work:

Elizabeth H. Boyer wrote a series known as The World of the Alfar. In the books, there is a great wizarding school and anyone who graduates from this school is considered elite. In one of the stories, a wizard is hired on the basis of these Guild credentials. However, it's later revealed that he was never taught at the Guild. He's an extremely talented wizard and he did go to a good school. However, there was prejudice against him, so he tended to lie about his qualifications.

The plot consequence of his lie was that, while defeated enemies can be ordered by the authority of a Guild wizard to present themselves to the Guild for judgement of their crimes (and they'll do it, too, because the Guild is that reputable), the evil witches that he defeated suspected he wasn't a real Guild wizard. Instead of presenting themselves for trial at the Guild, they instead break the pact, sneak back and are able to successfully ambush the heroes.

edited 9th Jun '18 6:37:20 PM by Wyldchyld

Ok, I noticed none of that, but I guess I'm still relatively new. Thanks for the insight. When I first looked at it, it looked just like any other university useful notes page. I think that if it is decided that some aspects of it should become a trope, it shouldn't be called Oxbridge. If we decide to keep it as a trope, I still think a useful notes page on Oxbridge would be good. On a slightly different note, some of the 'sub tropes' it mentions don't even have pages on the wiki.

edited 10th Jun '18 1:56:38 PM by QuantumMelody29

This just reads like a Useful Notes page for the real life common term for Oxford and Camebridge University in the UK. And since it is a real life term referring to two real universities, it can hardly be counted as Hollywood Atlas.

That's what I've been trying to say. It reads like a useful note and is even in one or two useful note indexes. I think that if there is a trope in it somewhere, it should be a separate page with a different name.

Support making this a Useful Notes. Should be easy to port over.

Yes, what I'm saying is that the Useful Notes is a good idea, but it looks like we've got a trope going on here as well. As a result, I'm saying we need to do two things: turn Oxbridge into a Useful Notes and then create a Prestigious Schooling trope (if an equivalent doesn't already exist).

I'm ok with that.

Sounds good to me. But maybe a better name?

I support the split. Do we need to send the trope to YKTTW to encourage examples other than Oxford or Cambridge? Doing so would also solve our naming problem.

Split.

But what would the name of the trope be?

Any more votes to split.

The description of Prestigious Schooling given in 3 seems very specific so I wonder how many examples of the current page would actually fall under it. Supporting a move to Useful Note and cutting of examples. The TLP draft can be done independently.

Edited by eroock on Nov 3rd 2018 at 1:03:47 PM

Btw, Started At Oxbridge could use a review about being a Just for Fun page.

Could that be folded into UsefulNotes.Oxbridge? Seems like a section noting the importance of Cambridge Footlights would add to the usefulness of the page.

Agree that we can move forward with the Useful Note-ification independent of a ruling on a possible Prestigious Schooling trope. Ivy League for Everyone might already cover a lot of possible examples of that though.

seems like a good idea. It seems like something that doesn't need it's own page.

Consensus to merge Oxbridge and Started At Oxbridge into a Useful Notes, and launch some sort of prestigious schooling trope?

I think that's the best plan.

I still agree about the UsefulNotes.Oxbridge and Prestigious Schooling split, but I think the Started At Oxbridge list is not needed at all. Listing where actors went to school is maybe something to list on their description pages, but I don't think we should be making lists of colleges and the people who went to them.

You have a point there.

Split Oxbridge into UsefulNotes.Oxbridge and Prestigious Schooling, but cut Started At Oxbridge. Move the Bland-Name Product examples to that trope, Prestigious Schooling, or both.

Edited by Lymantria on Dec 9th 2018 at 5:40:42 AM