Conan the Cimmerian

So here is the post to talk about our favorite barbarian, conan the cimmerian, right now I have read howard story from the Phoneix in the Sword to the People of the Black circle.

What is your favorite Conan story to you?

I bought the original Howard stories a few years ago in the three volumes The Coming of Conan, The Bloody Crown of Conan, and The Conquering Sword of Conan. I read through all of them, but it's been a while.

Probably I would say "Queen of the Black Coast" and "Tower of the Elephant" are the two stories that I liked best. Hour of the Dragon, the only novel-length Conan story, is not bad either, though it repeats some of the themes of other Conan stories, like "The Scarlet Citadel".

Yeah, the queen of the black coast is not bad but it haven age well: Belit is a flaux action girl and the black people there do nothing, on the other hand Conan REALLY shine as chaotic neutral barbarian.

The Tower of the elephant really show me that conan is the perfect muderhobo: he just go whatever he want, murdering stuff without carrying too much about details...

Now Im wondering if there going to be a good conan adaptation

Beyond the Black River is probably my favourite of the Howard Conan stories if only for the final paragraph that perfectly encapsulates the series

I would also agree that The Hour of the Dragon is great as it has the biggest scope of any of the Howard stories (being the only full novel). Drums of Tombalku is probably my favourite of the unfinished stories.

Yeah, Howard seen to like to write about barbarism a lot, he said in one card that he lost interest in diferent cultures one they become "culture" and it kinda show in conan: kozars, Mongols,etc.

Anyway I repeat the question: what conan story is worth mention?

It's been pointed out both in the story and in a review of same that Belit isn't really meant to be an action girl rather she and Conan are a Brains and Brawn duo.

As for my favorite stories, "Beyond the Black River" probably qualifies and "Phoenix on the Sword" os good too. Least favorite? "Vale of Lost Women".

Problem is, the story just jump stright into the city of the winged one so we never saw that, I get why but it dosent help nontheless, maybe some conan pátiche can show more of belit, I hope so

And yes, I read valle of the lost women....is really howard worst story by far.

One of the interesting thing about Conan is that he actually is smart and cunning, and learned too, to a degree. He favors expediency and practicality, though, and isn't terribly concerned with anyone else's welfare, so he generally takes the path of least resistance and just smashes stuff.

I always wonder what kind of writer Howard would have been if he'd actually lived to mature a bit (he was only 30 when he killed himself). He was down on "civilization," in both his writing and in his personal philosophy, but as Novalyn Price pointed out to him, he seemed to enjoy the benefits of civilization immensely. All the people he considered "barbarians" were actually fairly civilized in their own right.

Does anyone else have the Del Rey editions? They're beautiful, with notes from the author and illustrations from people like Mark Schultz and Garry Gianni.

I do. The Mark Schultz illustrations are particularly beautiful.

The stuff from Howard's letters make him sound like he'd have been a bit hard to take in person, though.

edited 17th Sep '17 1:59:12 PM by Robbery

How Howard would have developed as a writer if he'd lived into say his seventies is something that's intrigued me for decades. How would he have reacted to the collapse of the pulps, the rise of comics, WWII and the civil right's movement for instance?

edited 18th Sep '17 7:23:37 AM by tricksterson

Very hard to say. My best guess: the depression that led to his suicide might have prematurely dried up his literary output in any case. After the pulps, taking full advantage of media like the comics and the larger publishing houses might've required him to move to a more metropolitan locale ... which I don't think he'd ever have had the heart to do.

As for political changes: Howard's existing oeuvre wasn't exactly responsive to current events. I doubt that the mid- to late 20th century would've affected his choice of subject matter or themes.

Yeah, so far Reading is theme, I dont thing he would change that much: maybe putting more diverse chararter but is disdaing for civilization is clear, I haven encounter a good "civilize" chararter so far and I doubt I will.

A few of his civilized characters were portrayed as admirable, but were generally portrayed as being, while not entirely ineffectual, certainly not as capable as Conan.

I doubt his depression would have dried up his output; he was pretty prolific, and he'd gone through bouts of depression before (he attributed it to having a "dark, Irish nature," but it sounded like he had undiagnosed clinical depression, or was possibly bipolar). When he died he was becoming less interested in fantasy and expressed a desire to write about "his own country." My guess is he would have started writing Westerns in earnest; I could see him transitioning into screenwriting, where he could have been in serious demand, writing Westerns for Hollywood in the 50's.

edited 21st Sep '17 9:33:16 AM by Robbery

the way he describe Cimmeria in is book is pretty much depression: the contry, even if description of it in first draft of the phoenix and the sword sound closer to lovecrafnian country.

He was also moving into historicals. One of his best works IMHGO was "Shadow of the Vulture" featuring the real Red Sonja (who most manifestly did not wear a chainmail bikini) and centered on Suleiman the Magnificent's siege of Vienna.

I remember one of Howard's letters saying he was planning to switch to Westerns full time, as he was getting tired of fantasy. Whether that would've stuck or not, I don't know.

"t were generally portrayed as being, while not entirely ineffectual, certainly not as capable as Conan."

which to be fair, nearly anyone is capable as conan, the guy is mordeline gary stu and I think howard writing is what it avoid him to turn into one.

In fact when it come to conan being better as civilization is come more to is cynical nature about it, he hate cimmeria and dosent want to return there(which is why he is not a noble savage) but almost everyone around him is weaker and idiotic.

Howard was pretty fond of barbarians, and put them in almost all of his stories. Yes, even the cowboy stories. Yes, even the one detective story I read. As he saw it, the closer you were to civilization, the more inferior you were, which is how you get his weird hierarchy of superiority. My favorite Howard stories are the Solomon Kane stories, because he's an avatar of civilization as Howard saw it, and Howard had to stretch literary muscles he never used much. I think if Kane was written for a Conan story, he'd be a villain, or at least a Worthy Opponent.

That Is why I think the perfect crossover story for conan would be elric of meliborne, both have this age of sorcery thing going on, one is barbarian while the other the king of decadent civilization as whole.

Michael Moorcock has said he created Elric to essentially make fun of all the Conan rip offs of the time (including many Conan pastiches).

Elric is sickly, a wizard, from a decaying decadent civilization, melancholy rather than passionate, and the very opposite of a barbarian.

Just to note that Howard himself did a crossover of two of his characters, Kull and Bran Mak Morn

edited 29th Sep '17 4:07:46 PM by tricksterson

really? I know the guy is not a fan of tolkien which is why is version of elves are pretty much decadent and the best version of evil elves of all but of conan pastiches?intersting.

Also is intersting that for all the fame of conan as barbarina, is first story is when he is king in "civilization" is.....weird choice to start.

Also, what conan story do you feel good for a movie to adapt?

Yeah, a lot of the common perception of Conan is formed by the movies and the knock offs buy other authors, especially Carter and de Camp. The Frazetta covers are also heavily to blame. AFAIK, in the Howard stories at least I don't think Conan ever dressed like that.

As to what stories would make the best movies, I think you'd have to string several of them together since they were all short stories.

If I remember correctly, it said in the introduction of my Conan Collection that the first Conan story had originally been written as a Kull story (it is also mentioned on the page here actually) but was changed to Conan as Howard felt it didn't fit the existing character.

This is pretty much what happened with the 1982 Arnold Schwarzenegger film as it has a number of elements taken from various stories.

I personally think one Red Nails could be good as a movie if it had some padding out.

edited 5th Oct '17 9:51:38 AM by SebastianGray