Venom

Cross-posting from the SUMC thread:

Venom 2, now under the name Venom: Let There Be Carnage, got moved from October 2, 2020 to June 25, 2021.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Apr 21st 2020 at 1:17:29 PM

At least Venom’s writers have their next gig lined up, an adaptation of One-Punch Man.

And Avi Arad is producing. Again. Why is that guy in so much stuff?

Meanwhile, back to Venom: Let There Be Carnage, apparently a sizable chunk of people on Twitter is fussing about the subtitle, with some wondering why it isn't something like Maximum Carnage.

I suspect Sony is keeping itself from using Maximum Carnage as a subtitle until it's completely safe to use Tom Holland's Spider-Man without the input of Marvel Studios...

Speaking of Spider-Man, given how LTBC is releasing a few weeks before MCU!Spider-Man 3, should we expect MCU!Spider-Man 3 to have a different release date soon?

Maximum Carnage is a crossover event. You wouldn't just want to get Tom Holland in that. You'd want that to be, like, the "Captain America: Civil War" of the Spider-Man film series.

Limited Maximum Carnage to just Spider-Man and Venom teaming up to fight Carnage would be doing the title a major disservice.

EDIT: That's not to say that they need to bring the Avengers onboard, mind. Just... wait until Morbius and whoever else Sony wants in the SUMC are established and can jump in on that shit before you start throwing the title Maximum Carnage around.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 21st 2020 at 3:33:20 AM

Sounds like the perfect movie once you have Spidey, Venom, maybe Agent Venom, either Ben or Kaine, Firestar and a bunch of other people already in place.

I honestly think Maximum Carnage, as well as Carnage as a character period, is extremely overrated.

He’s just a violent psychopath.

There’s not really much to overrate.

Agreed. I would go into call it one of the most overrated and worst comic book events ever.

Frankly, I find Venom as a whole is pretty shallow. Agent Venom is best Venom.

Edited by Akirakan on Apr 21st 2020 at 4:38:17 AM

Maximum Carnage is rated at all? People used to call it maximum garbage. People working for Marvel.

The best you can say for it is that it's popcorn fun. And I've never seen anyone say that.

I like Maximum Carnage. It was a fun event.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Apr 21st 2020 at 3:34:24 AM

I like Maximum Carnage, but I'm biased. It was the first crossover event I ever read, back when I was young and didn't have the ability to get very many comics. My knowledge of Spider-Man was mostly limited to the 90's cartoon, but I specifically sought out the comics after seeing one in a comic shop, because the fact that Maximum Carnage wasn't an original story made up for a Super Nintendo game blew my young mind.

I got the entire collection at some point, I don't remember when, and they were the only comics I had for years. Apart from some scattered singles that didn't make much sense 'cause they were, like, "Issue #4 of a six-part story buried somewhere in the Clone Saga" or "Issue #3 of some part of this long X-Men deal", etc. etc. I had all of Maximum Carnage and it was a cohesive story with a start and finish, and I read the hell out of it.

So. Yeah. I really like Maximum Carnage but there are extenuating factors that strongly influence my opinion about it.

High five you and me are at the same boat.

bukjkaf

Edited by RedHunter543 on Apr 21st 2020 at 3:47:40 AM

I'm just baffled at the idea that it could be considered overrated.

Video game was fun though.

Drat. Now I actually want to see at least SOME Avengers get involved in a hypothetical Maximum Carnage movie. Or at least Deadpool.

Actually, in light of the pandemic making every Hollywood project move to next year and how it looks like they pretty much finished principal photography for both Venom: LTBC and Morbius and they just need some post-production and editing, isn't it feasible enough to have Kevin Feige be a producer so the movies aren't totally subpar?

Or is that too much to ask for?

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Apr 21st 2020 at 7:26:47 AM

Don't sleep.

Edited by fredhot16 on Apr 21st 2020 at 5:09:10 AM

The Age of Ultron movie had nothing to do with the comic in terms of scale. Ultron was around for a few days, maybe weeks.

A Maximum Carnage movie would actually be better off with a less bloated cast and more focus on the enmity between Carnage and Venom.

The real question is if Carnage is still Venom's son?

Will Woody Harrelson have a better wig than the sideshow bob looking one last time?

If Carnage is Venom's son in this version, there is going to be a lot of mr. seahorse jokes.

Age of Ultron is also a very unpopular film, so I'm not sure that's really the best choice to model new movies around.

Civil War retained the big crossover and the scale of conflict while also improving on the weaknesses of the original, without sacrificing narrative focus on its central figures.

Apparently they thought the wig was ridiculous too, since set photos for LTBC showed Cletus with much shorter hair.◊

Agreed. While there's tons of named characters and even the establishing of two new heroes in Black Panther and Spider-Man, Civil War still feels like it's a Captain America story through and through.

This is even more so when one recalls how the original Civil War storyline was seen as pretty messy, structurally speaking.

With that in mind, a movie adaptation of Maximum Carnage can absolutely retain a huge sense of crossover action and scale of conflict as Civil War did in 2016. The trick would have to be keeping a cohesive structure.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Apr 22nd 2020 at 10:59:29 AM

Point taken. I should have used better examples like maybe Thor: Ragnarok. Either way, an In Name Only adaptation of Maximum Carnage does not have to be bad and could arguably be much better than the source material which is not well liked.

There was still a lot that was changed like the inciting incident of the war and the number of heroes involved.

Keep in mind that one of the biggest complaints about Maximum Carnage is that the story just did not warrant being as long as it was with as many characters as it had. Reducing the amount of characters takes care of one of those problems while still just keeping it about Venom vs Carnage as it should be.

Wasn't the core of Maximum Carnage about the dichotomy between Spider-Man and Venom's approach to dealing with Carnage? How Spidey was trying to uphold his Thou Shalt Not Kill methods while Venom insisted that lethal methods were the only way of dealing with villains like Carnage?

Yes, stopping Carnage from his campaign of slaughter was the main goal, but it's inaccurate to say that story was supposed to be "Venom needs to beat Carnage" since Peter's supposed to be the protagonist of the story. He's the central figure who has his world-view challenged and ultimately is the one who defeats Carnage. Venom's not the protagonist of that story.

Granted, it's been a while since I read the story, so maybe I'm missing a few details. There's nothing stopping the film from taking elements from Maximum Carnage. But maybe there's a reason they went with a different subtitle, especially if Sony didn't a thousand clickbait articles about "Will Spider-Man appear in Venom: Maximum Carnage".

Do any of you think that the recent developments of the Venom series by Donny Cates (and the mythology of the symbiotes as a whole) will be integrated to the movies?

I'm frankly not a big fan of many of this additions to the Venom mythos (the spider being a dragon, all the unnecessary magic/cosmic stuff, how boring Knull is) but I wonder if any of it will come to the movies. Even though I dislike Cates' run (mostly for how he erased all the development Eddie had gone through) it is a popular run judging by sales.

On one hand, there is the popularity, on the other there's how producers might think how the general audience might react to all this magic/cosmic stuff. Everyone is familiar with the simple "is a parasitic alien", so I imagine they might have cold feet when introducing all this concepts. I think characters like Knull woikd eventually show up, but with altered origins.

And it's not like I don't think that symbiotes and magic merge together, I was iffy of the Gerry Conway Carnage (2015) series, but holy cow it's probably the best comic featuring Carnage made.

I’ll take anything that wasn’t written by Brian Micheal Bendis.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 22nd 2020 at 1:18:47 AM

When you brought up Bendis, I thought about how he made Carnage out of Ultimate Gwen Stacy, which didn't sit well with most folks, but then I remembered "didn't he have Venom be a Guardian of the Galaxy and give him that redesign◊ everyone complained about?"

I...actually unironically liked that redesign.

(*gets splattered by several paintballs*)

EDIT: Shoot. Now I want to see Venom be a Guardian.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Apr 22nd 2020 at 6:15:15 AM