Fate/Grand Order

I’ll try to see if anyone on Japanese Wikipedia actually edited the page to match the Fate interpretation.

Edit #1: Damn, the Gudaguda raid is over? I guess that I’ll worry about saving my apples for Tunguska.

Edit#2: I checked English Wikipedia and they don’t source the bit about the ephemeral fruits.

Edited by Mewaddlee on Oct 30th 2023 at 1:15:18 AM

Would Theseus final Ascension count The Un-Smile?

I'm curious about that as well, especially given that the misinformation about Ydallr stemmed from a FE game.

Isn't it Apollodorus's version? Here's the link to the citation number.

(Btw Dionysiaca's version probably has the funniest start, Zeus hiding his thunderbolts in a cave so... he can go seduce a nymph? Do you not have a house mister? No wonder he doesn't do that again.)

Edited by alekos23 on Oct 30th 2023 at 10:40:41 AM

Apollodorus’s version mentions the fruits, but nothing about the wish-granting. I suppose that the wish-granting is a Fate original and a Japanese fan assumed that Fate’s version of the story is accurate to the original.

What misinformation about Ydallr?

Edited by Mewaddlee on Oct 30th 2023 at 1:55:26 AM

Going by edit history it's been there since 2007 (sheesh that's a deep rabbit hole) at least. But the dumb link's invalid I guess.

Edited by alekos23 on Oct 30th 2023 at 11:08:06 AM

IIRC: There was a weapon in Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War (a game that to this day remains unlocalized), named Ichival or smt to that effect. Originally wielded by a character name Ullr. The name "Ichival" was considered to be the actual name of a bow in Norse Myth by some editors of the other wiki, (not sure if it was the en or jp version) who added it to relevant pages. Thus ended up with the name recurring in both Symphogear and SMITE as a result because the writers and devs respectively were using Wikipedia as a resource (and thus provding a fun anecdote/reason for teachers who still think Wikipedia is invalid as a source)

The bow was latter properly localized as Yewfille when it returned in Awakening and later again when Ullr was added to Heroes. I'm not entirely sure if Ydallr was the intended name (it isn't the name of a weapon, but instead the mythological Ullr's hall IIRC. FTR Ullr's bow was unnamed in the actual myths AFAIK) but it was prolly the intended reference.

Needless to say, Robin Hood had dodge a bullet when his NP was simply named "Yew Bow" instead

I bring this tangent up because I suspect that people trying to add fruity details to Typhon's page in JP Wikipedia might be of a similar nature, though I also suspect that rather that there is some potential element of deliberance there on the editors part. In contrast to the Ichival thing likely being a goof from people that were more versed in JP only games than they are Norse Mythology.

TL:DR: Video Game weapon name got mistaken for an actual name for a mythological nameless weapon.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Oct 30th 2023 at 2:09:56 AM

Okay I went as far back as 2006 and the fruit's still there, standing proud. No citations though, maybe I should check for Apollodorus's Bibliotheca in Japanese. But that's for far braver folk than I.

(congrats mysterious person on April 6th 2006, you made it in a gacha game)

Edited by alekos23 on Oct 30th 2023 at 11:16:12 AM

IIRC "Brionac" being the name for a legendary spear is much the same situation

Yeah I know about the misnaming of Abreadhar, but not so much how it started.

It comes from Michael Moorcock's writings and then got popularized in Japan when some guy wrote it down as Lugh's spear in his Truth in Fantasy books.

Honestly the only thing we might get out of this whole thing is a Pretender Looper to compliment Tiamat.

Edited by Mewaddlee on Oct 30th 2023 at 5:41:15 AM

I personally wonder if Dragon Fruit was thought up by Sanda, or is she someone else's character who was added because Sanda was writing about Typhon anyway.

I believe Sanda is saying that he wrote Zenjubou and Theseus.

The oldest source online for the anti-wish power of the Ephemeral Fruits is this 03/03/2005 post from an anonymous hobby blog that tries to work as an easy resource for fantastic fiction writer. The Typhon post itself doesn't have sources but there is a list of sources for the blog as a whole. A lot of gaps in the list but the part that wasn't lost to time includes Takerube's Truth In Fantasy series, so precedent makes me want to call him the culprit.

NGL I did think it was a thing that was made up. A fruit that anti makes wishes come true doesn't really gel with the tone of classical mythology

It's honestly funnier if it was invented by a hobby blog. But I have to ask, what precedent was there of Takerube's Truth In Fantasy series?

Anyways, I decided to revisit Circe's interlude on Atlas Academy to see if Theseus ever says anything about the Theseus Ship Paradox, as per this lovely wiki

But I checked and it didn't come up once. Was it only in the Japanese version or something?

Edit:

I see

Edited by Mewaddlee on Oct 30th 2023 at 9:51:53 AM

Brionac being Lugh's spear is Takerube's fault

Theseus really giving off that”Do you regret you were ever born” vibes with that FA.

Theseus didn't bring his own ship up, but he does argue with Jason about his urgency with the Argo by inserting Argo into the paradox.

Truth In Fantasy is one of the oldest series of mythology books in Japan, so it’s a widespread source of completely made up factoids that influenced, if not defined, the portrayal of myths in Japanese games and anime. Example includes:

• Lugh’s spear being named Brionac (canon in Fate/)
• The gorgons being originally goddesses (canon in Fate/)
• Zababa being actually female (not canon in Fate/ yet, but this is the genderbend series so you know)

how nice that barbara walker has a friend

You can find these cases of "early adapters influence later depiction of things" with certain things. For example, kobolds. Japanese works gear towards "canine kobolds" because early D&D depicted them as dog-lizard hybrids before later editions made them more reptilian. But the damage was already done.

It isn't really surprising when you get down to it, but it is also funny how there is an English translation team for the game, but they probably cannot help with the research.

Speaking of Lugh, I realized that if you're a little loosey-goosey with the Fate of the Children of Tuireann, Cú Caster existing is just Odin getting one over on Lugh.

Lugh stole his dog, and now he gets to return the favor.

Something something at least we got dog girls out of it^note still mid compared to cat people.

My little belief is that the writing team could resort to the translation team to get better researched sources, but they’ve long since committed to

Edited by Mewaddlee on Oct 31st 2023 at 1:21:09 AM