Riverdale, an Archie Comics adaptation on the CW

Nah, I was referring to Pepper. Valerie replaced her in the trio before the retcons. Though to be fair I am not 100% sure if Pepper did perform in the Pussycats with Josie and Melody.

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As far as I know, she did not. Pepper, her boyfriend Sock, and Josie's beatnik boyfriend Albert all vanished from the strip when the band first appeared in Josie and the Pussycats # 45 (until that issue, the comic had simply been called Josie). Alan M became Josie's new boyfriend, having appeared previously as a folk singer Josie met in Josie # 42.

Apparently, the decision to make Valerie black (at least in the cartoon) was a big deal. She'd already appeared as such in the comics, but HB wanted to make her white. Music producer Danny Jansen, who assembled the three singers who sang for Josie and the Pussycats, had already hired African-American singer Patrice Holloway to sing for Valerie, and threatened to walk off the project if HB didn't keep Valerie as a black girl. Ultimately, HB saw reason.

edited 30th Jan '17 8:58:24 AM by Robbery

Show continues being good. Veronica is still the best character, but Betty is getting more interesting (even if she was unnecessarily bitchy for the first half hour), and I like the friendship between the three. Also good that they're portraying Archie/Grundy as a bad thing. I mean, she's at least ten years older than him and in a position of authority over him. This isn't a twenty year-old getting in trouble for sleeping with a seventeen year-old; this is exactly the sort of thing statutory rape laws were designed to prevent. Kevin didn't get a lot to do, but there's only so much screen time to go around. Glad Jughead got more development.

Also really liked the "sometimes the people you like just don't like you back, and its no one's fault" aesop. That's disturbingly rare in most media. I'm pretty sure this is literally the only time I've seen it. I hope they don't break it by having Archie develop feelings for Betty after all.

Yep, Veronica was really good again.

I liked the mention of Midge. I guess the thing with Moose and Kevin will be a background plot for a while then.

Also anyone else see Cheryl and Jason drinking from the same milkshake glass? I'm getting really strong Twincest vibes from them. From that and the scenes in the flashbacks.

I'm really hoping Betty and Veronica keep to that promise. I know CW likes its drama, but if they could keep that for at least a season it would be pretty great.

"But if that happened, Melia might actually be happy. We can't have that." - Handsome Rob

Its actually kinda nice to have a CW romance drama that doesnt' have a genre twist to it-no vampires, or aliens, no post-apocalyptic wasteland, just the source material which really fits squarely in the genre anyway, just with more comedy.

I just happened to catch the second episode of this (I'll probably end up watching the pilot on Hulu) and it works pretty well.

Someone asked a while back if CW shows have ever actually done a threesome and there's at least one that I know of on an episode of Gossip Girl, which I enjoyed for no other reason than promotional material used the episode OM 3.

I wouldn't be surprised if there have been others ,though.

Cheryl is creeping me out. I mean, there's the twincest vibes in the flashbacks, but there's also how her responses to everything are subtly wrong.

Although I think they've kind of missed the mark a little bit between Archie and Jughead. I'll just say that "estranged friends" isn't quite the vibe they managed to end up with.

But yeah, the show's still going strong. I'm really enjoying it still. That one background song (and the credits theme) keeps making me think that Closer by the Chainsmokers is about to start.

edited 3rd Feb '17 5:07:07 PM by Zendervai

Not Three Laws compliant.

Oh yeah definetely Twincest.

It was also there in Afterlife with Archie, written by the same guy.

I'm waiting for supernatural stuff to show up.

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.

Wow, Full Dark, No Stars shout out. That is obscure even by my standards.

Oh hey, Barb from stranger things, shiny.

Betty definitely went a bit too far trying to punish Chuck. It seems like she's trying to take out her frustrations against Jason towards him.

I kind of dislike how they made Chuck from an artist to a Jerk Jock womanizing creep.

Alice is way too controlling, creepy, and catty.

edited 9th Feb '17 10:09:53 PM by BearyScary

I liked it better when Questionable Casting was called WTH Casting Agency

The aesops in this episode were a bit on the nose, but not necessarily in a bad way. Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped and all that. More darkness from Betty is nice, and I also liked that Veronica knew where the line was and immediately talked to Betty about the whole thing after so that they could resolve it. I can't count how many times I've seen CW shows have characters just sit on their drama for entire seasons.

And yes, Betty's mom is still crazy. It's a miracle Betty didn't go worse when she let her dark side out.

So are the jocks going to turn into a murder squad, or are they all going to get killed by whoever killed Jason?

edited 9th Feb '17 10:28:11 PM by Discar

Overall, great episode. Girls standing up against slut shaming, Archie going for his artistic dreams, black girls explaining to a white guy that he doesn't understand their experience (but also being reminded that music is universal) overall solid stuff.

And yes, the pool/hot tub scene. I'm not going to complain about that-what is it about CW shows that virtually every member of the cast has to be insanely attractive? Archie is swoll, Betty, Veronica, and Cheryl are all in amazing shape, and even Archie's dad is frakkin Luke Perry.

At this point I would say the only real problem with the show is Jughead's narration. Narration works in certain genres (hardboiled detective stories, for one) but here it just feels off.

I'm enjoying how they're playing with the Betty and Veronica setup a bit. With Betty's incredibly repressed bad side.

It strikes me that had Archie seen that he'd likely have a much worse reaction than Veronica.

My impression so far is that while Archie has been friends with Betty for a long time. Now, especially with the upheavals going on, Veronica "gets" Betty better than anyone else.

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how their friendship develops more thoughout this season.

"But if that happened, Melia might actually be happy. We can't have that." - Handsome Rob

So yeah, Chuck's depiction has not been taken well

http://shawnsjames.blogspot.com.ng/2017/02/racism-on-cws-riverdale.html?m=1

http://colorwebmag.com/2017/02/10/riverdale-react-so-lets-talk-about-chuck-clayton/

I know absolutely nothing about Chuck Clayton from the "Archie Comics" and I hated whatever this, erm, character was supposed to be. I'm so sick of the arrogant black Jerk Jock archetype...even when it's done well like Smash Williams from "Friday Night Lights".

Not only is it already such an awful, tired stereotype in real life, but this depiction was just outrageously offensive. It also doesn't help that this is the first depiction of a black male side character we've seen on this show. And it ALSO completely undermines the message that Josie and the Pussycats were trying to explain to Archie later on in the episode.

The show basically took one step forward and two steps back in this episode. I mean, I still enjoyed the episode simply because of Betty, Veronica, and Jughead's adventures; but the more I think about it, the angrier I get. So yeah, Mr. Berlanti...let's not do that again, okay?

Not sold on the "it's racist to have a black man be terrible to women" thing, the Cosby connection seems iffy and more based on what comes across writer's own belief that Cosby did nothing wrong.

Character derailment I can see as a solid argument, except it's an adaption and everyone is changed, a lack of solid positive portrayals of black men I can see an argument for and think it's something that is going to have to be covered more. Though acting like Chuck is the one black guy up in town seems disingenuous.

Oh and on Grundy, am I the only one who finds it being portrayed as to positive? Like it's shown as a negative but more in a standard "secret thing neither of us should be doing" light than a "this women is a child abusing rapist who needs to be locked away" light. They were almost there with Jug but they couldn't even have him use the right word, she's not a cougar, she's a fucking child molester.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran

Agreed. That bothered me about the article, but I was too afraid to say so.

The second article linked to above was much better.

I liked it better when Questionable Casting was called WTH Casting Agency

I don't know, the fact that a black character got his... character changed so violently when other characters received more positive changes rubbed me the wrong way.

Also so far Kevin Keller is so Token Gay it's not funny. He might as well not have any lines and just jump in front of the camera every few scenes to point at a Gay Pride Flag he has tattooed on his forehead.

This. However, even though I found Chuck offensive; I personally still enjoyed it. I hope they do something with Trev. He seems cool and I'm going to try to be optimistic since it's still early in the series. But as for this week's episode: yeah...I kind of hated it.

Like I'm not kidding, this episode made me throw things. This episode was, by far, one of the most deplorable things I've ever seen on television. The Archie/Grundy subplot was definitely the weakest part of the show, but the way this episode ended it up was just baffling.

• Does anyone in this show actually understand the gravity of what Ms. Grundy did to Archie? Seriously, where were the police when Alice and Mr. Andrews catch Archie and Grundy in the act at the school?And why did Mr. Andrews just let Grundy leave like she didn't continuously rape his son? And why is the show trying to make it seem like this is all on Archie? He's 'FIFTEEN. And where are the therapists for Archie afterward?

• Why does Alice Cooper not only condemn a 15-year-old boy for being taken advantage of; but also completely turn the situation and make it about her relationship with her daughter? That's not only disturbing, but absolutely disgusting.

• Why does Betty, after trying so hard to unmask Ms. Grundy for the awful, manipulative person that she is, end up defending her? Betty, to answer your question, she being put on trial because she deserves to be put on trial.

• And lastly, why does Ms. Grundy get away with statutory rape and lustfully looks at more teenage boys as she leaves town? This woman is seriously one of the most disgusting characters I have ever seen. And I hope they don't bring her back unless it's in the form of a corpse.

All that aside, however, Jughead, Veronica, Cheryl and Betty (even though she pissed me off this week) just make this show for me and continue to be great characters. Hopefully now that Grundy is gone; they can make Archie half as interesting as his peers because at this point...I'm trying really hard not to hate him.

edited 16th Feb '17 8:49:08 PM by deuteragonist

At this point I'm wondering why people are giving kinda racist CW Twin Peaks with Archie characters time when the actual Twin Peaks is set to air in May. Is it compare the real Twin Peaks to this trainwreck?

I'm actually alright with it? Yes definitely more of a guilty pleasure than anything else.

I love Riverdale. Nothing about it is So Bad, It's Good or a Guilty Pleasure to me. Its a little cheesy at times, but the writing is VERY good in this show. It was smart of them to cut off Archie's relationship with Grundy. I was okay with it last one or two more episodes, but its good they let Mr. Andrews and the Coopers find out after Betty and Veronica did.

I love that in addition to the murder mystery surrounding Cheryl's brother, there's also a bunch of other mini-mysteries like what's going on between the Mayor and Ronnie's mom and what's the deal with Betty's sister?

It reminds me a lot of Veronica Mars, but it also feels likes the Game of Thrones of Teen Drama in terms of great quality so far and how everyone has an agenda!

edited 16th Feb '17 10:01:38 PM by IMBoring

@deuteragonist the Grundy/Archie sub plot can be summed up as rape is okay if it's female on male

@ deuteragonist: I think you're missing some pretty major subtext here.

Betty and Veronica both mentioned Grundy could go to jail, though I will admit it got glossed over more than I'd like. As for the rest: Alice wanted to confront Grundy herself because it makes for a better story (and she's a crazy bitch), Mr. Andrews let Grundy leave because he thought it would be best for Archie not to watch her get dragged through the mud and thought she wasn't going to lust after any more highschool boys (mistakenly; more on that later), and Archie is just the kind of person who always blames himself for everything.

You seem to have missed the fact that Alice Cooper is fucking crazy. She was not portrayed as in the right for one single second. She randomly decided that Archie was pure evil and pounced on something that might possibly if you look at it upside down and sideways in the dark prove her right. This is spelled out almost explicitly in the end, when Betty points out that her mom is conflating her relationship with Archie with Polly/Jason.

Partly because Grundy's sob story touched her heart, but most of it was probably to save Archie and screw over her crazy mom.

Double standard regarding female statutory rape plus Archie's dad not wanting to go on a witch hunt that will only punish his son. And obviously no one saw her lusting after other boys; everyone is clearly assuming that Archie was and will be a one-time thing. That scene was definitely not portraying her in the right. It was showing the audience that she's worse than she tried to pretend.

I've actually quite enjoyed Miss Grundy on the show.

Don't get me wrong. I think she's a loathsome individual. But I quite like how you can definitely tell something is off with her interactions with Archie. It's pretty clear she's manipulating him pretty much whenever they interact.

I'm very glad she's not going to be able to influence Archie in the immediate future though.

I'm also hopeful Archie will eventually come to realize how she manipulated him. Possibly if she comes back and he witnesses her do the same thing with someone else.

"But if that happened, Melia might actually be happy. We can't have that." - Handsome Rob