Riverdale, an Archie Comics adaptation on the CW

I'm wondering if Archie and Jughead's decisions to leave town would be the final straws in their relationships with Ronnie and Betty.

Veronica, probably.

But breaking up Bughead for more than a few episodes...I'll be really surprised if they have the guts to do that.

I'd actually like to see Archie date Betty for a little while at least, but I really don't see it happening.

I don't think this will have too much of an adverse effect on Bughead. Ronnie's going to be pissed at Archie when Jughead inevitably drags him back, but Jug's made no promises to be gone forever. He's not just bugging out on Betty, but also on the investigation, on his vendetta against Hiram, and on the Serpents. That final scene is totally OOC for Jughead. If.

IF.

Jughead had any intention of staying gone. But he almost certainly doesn't. I think Jug's playing the long game here. He's going along with Archie's plans and being Archie's bro so that he can convince Archie to come back and help him fight Hiram. He knows that locking horns with Archie will just make Archie do it without him, so he's letting Archie win just enough to get a foot in the door.

Betty will understand that. One of the great things about their relationship is that they're both mature, responsible people who can take care of themselves and they trust and respect one another to do the same. Neither one has to constantly be holding the other one's hand all the time. They're legit partners.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 29th 2018 at 11:18:59 AM

I don't read Riverdale fanfiction.

But the ending of this episode would make an excellent starting point for any Sabrina crossovers.

Especially a self contained story.

I might check back in a week or two on AO 3 to see if anyone did that.

Fanfiction.net has three of them so far, though one's in French. There's about Riverdale fanfics on there as a whole, which kinda surprises me since ff.net feels more anime, game and cartoon-inclined while AO 3 feels more live-action TV inclined.

I dont think they'll break Betty and Jughead up either, but it would be nice to see Archie and Betty have an actual relationship for like half a season or so.

I actually really like the way the classic love triangle was resolved back in season 1. Betty likes Archie but Archie likes Veronica so Betty gracefully and respectfully accepts that her feelings are one-sided, continues to be friends with Archie, and everyone promptly moves on with their lives.

That is some fantastic emotional maturity that you almost never see in media.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 1st 2018 at 6:04:45 AM

Sure, except Betty's feelings aren't one sided.

Archie definitely has feelings for Betty also.

I think the show would have done more to explore that had they not unexpectedly struck teenage fan gold with Bughead.

Plenty of people still want Betty x Archie to happen. Me, I'm actually a fan of Cheryl x Archie, but that'll never happen.

Archie’s feelings for Betty seem mostly platonic. Yes there was the kiss in season 2 but he that seemed more due to him feeling vulnerable after his break up with Veronica.

I'd like to see Cheryl/Archie too, actually.

I mean I like Jughead and Betty together, I'd just also like to see a story arc with 'Varchie', as the kids say.

So what do you guys think? Is the Gargoyle King going to wind up in leagues with Hiram or at odds with him?

Is it weird that I actually want a G&G rulebook?

My vote goes to Eviler than Thou. It's way too early in the season to reveal the ultimate truth about the Gargoyle King, so the fact that they're already playing the "Nonono, it's TOTES Hiram Lodge, guys," card makes me think that Hiram absolutely is not the Gargoyle King.

But they want us to think he is.

That, to me, is setting the stage for the surprise reveal of a bigger and scarier villain than Hiram. The only real question is whether Hiram, too, is serving the Gargoyle King or if he's just using the Gargoyle King's mystique.

Personally, I expect the latter. It's more interesting and more "factional", if that makes sense. Riverdale doesn't really have a Good Guy Section and Bad Guy Section to its conflicts. It's one of those shows where loyalties shift around all the time, so an event chain of:

• Hiram think all this Gargoyle King nonsense is bunk and uses its influence to manipulate people like the Warden.
• The true Gargoyle King comes for Hiram, revealing its existence dramatically - possibly at the midseason finale, to leave fans with something to digest after spending half the season fighting Hiram.
• Hiram is forced to enlist Bughead's help because suddenly there's no one he can trust and anyone on his payroll could be working for the Gargoyle King.

Feels to me like the most "Riverdale" way to go.

EDIT: As an aside, if I had to pick anyone from the Midnight Club to be the Gargoyle King, I'd vote Hermione Lodge. I can't really put into words why; it just feels like her turn, if that makes sense? I totally expect the Gargoyle King to be a woman and Hermione feels like the most dramatically shocking; the show's started to frame her as the Only Sane Man of the conflict between Veronica and Hiram, even though Veronica's actually the Good Guy of it.

EDIT EDIT: Actually, if it does turn out to be Hermione, there's a third option for Hiram where he's legit 100% in the dark about the Gargoyle shenanigans. Still an evil mob boss, but actually not responsible for the blue-lip suicides and shit.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 2nd 2018 at 9:14:31 AM

Wow. Poor Betty should have just told the truth so she could pretend she was brainwashed.

Veronica seems to be going on a dark path. Let's hope she doesn't turn out like her father.

And next week we finally see Jughead's mother and sister!

Looks like not having the Sisters of Quiet Mercy shut down when she could kind of bit Betty in the ass.

Did we not go through this with Veronica in the last season?

And man is Archie lucky Jughead was with him on the run because this episode shows his poor decision making skills.

I'm now confident that the Gargoyle King is Hermione.

The initials H.L. could be Hiram. But they could just as easily be Hermione Lodge.

Glad I am not alone there, she been my number one suspect since Norton's suicide.

We also have not yet seen this enigmatic Edgar Evernever figure. Maybe he's tied into all this in some way, related to the Midnight Club and the original game of G&G.

I think we're seeing something where the game turns up wherever there's pain, loss, desperation and need.

I've got a theory running that Edgar will be some sort of Micolash-like figure.

I still think the Farm's going to be some separate awfulness independent of G&G. They've so far been largely out-of-focus while the narrative focus fixed on G&G. I feel like the show's building them up to be the other arc of the season, once the G&G story has either been resolved or at least gone dormant.

I compared it before to what season two did, having the Lodge-fueled turf war and gang drama existing independently of the Black Hood plotline. Both served the same general theme of crime and corruption, while being their own separate ugly things. I think the Gargoyle King and Edgar Evernever are going to be distinctly separate pseudo-magical cult villains, each receiving their own focus at different stages of the season and only intersecting via the characters drifting from one to the other.

They might even be setting up the Farm to swoop in for season four, rather than have the protagonists directly confront Edgar Evernever in season three. One way or another, they're definitely spending this time to set the stage for the Farm to become a thing down the road rather than trying to make it a big deal right now.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 11th 2018 at 1:58:38 PM

Yeah that would actually be better - have The Farm basically swoop in and reveal their eldritch / pseudo-eldritch designs for the town.

It'd also be pretty good for catching Hiram flatfooted if he's still around.

Gotta wonder how mystical they're gonna go.

Wow. That was quite the mid-season finale.

So G&G was made up by the sisters to scare people straight, but who brought it into the outside?

Also, did Jughead's mother kill Penny?

And now I think the Gargoyle King is Claudius, but that doesn't explain why Penelope had a seizure.

I wondered if she might have been faking the seizure for some reason.

I also love how Hermoine just calmly and casually reminded Veronica that she was an elected official. I guess those kids really were high because that's the only way that plan would have made any sense.

Edited by windleopard on Dec 13th 2018 at 5:46:26 AM

Jughead really needs to keep Archie on a leash. He can't go five minutes without getting jumped.

Well maybe the dog can keep him out of trouble.