Diversity and Representation in Media

WW-Wonder Woman

SJ-Social Justice

Um,White Feminism,what precisely do you mean?

I wouldn't, considering how some of the latest incarcerations of Wonder Woman portray her as a tanned Mediterranean instead of a conventional pale central European appearance. I've mentioned it before how Southern Europeans such as Greeks often are mistaken to be "Middle Eastern" at first glance due to them not resembling the mainstream "white" appearance.

White feminism refers to feminism that focuses exclusively on the struggles of white women at the exclusion of women of color and other marginalized women (i.e trans women, gay women, etc).

I meant the DCEU movie. Thus the mention of Gal Gadot.

I thought it was race-only. A LGTB White woman can still apply to white feminism, I believe

Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 20th 2018 at 3:00:49 AM

I think the Gal Gadot mentions might be referring to her views regarding a certain contested geographic region, and that's all I'm gonna say on it. Only mentioned it here because that's typically what I see the WF card brought out for, regardless of whether or not it is accurate.

You do not have to be a white woman to be a white feminist; men can be white feminists too. Obviously, it is wrong to reflexively apply the label onto a person without any proof that said person is racist, but it is entirely fair to remind folks that oppression is multi-tiered and that one can be marginalized in some aspects and privileged in others.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Oct 20th 2018 at 1:09:37 AM

> White feminism refers to feminism that focuses exclusively on the struggles of white women at the exclusion of women of color and other marginalized women

And at no point does Wonder Woman show an example of Wonder Woman doing this,so the complaint is wrong

Edited by Ultimatum on Oct 20th 2018 at 1:11:35 AM

When the film came out, I think I remember seeing some black feminists note that while they were happy for the female representation, black women still don’t get the same amount of representation as white women, and other women of color often don’t get much representation either. So it’s sometimes hard to be as excited for yet another movie/show starring a white woman that is lauded as a huge feminist deal, when women of color are still often being left out. That seems like a completely fair complaint to me.

Eh, the numbers already have black repesentation being over represented back in 2016. Did they want equal to white representation?

The numbers from where?

https://socialsciences.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/UCLA-Hollywood-Diversity-Report-2018-2-27-18.pdf

The study covers the 2015-2016 period.

@wisewillow: There's always going to be a crowd that's left out even as we build on diversity to create brand new film concepts. You just can't do everything at once.

I was never angry that there wasn't a film about a Straight Gay teenager coming out until 2018, because there had already been a shift towards more LGBT representation in recent years which led to it becoming possible. Happy as hell when it did though (if you couldn't tell by my avatar).

Edited by Grafite on Oct 20th 2018 at 11:36:58 AM

One has to consider that the feminism movement has had a bit of an upward struggle with taking into account the different sort of struggles non-white women face.

There's a reason "white feminism" has become a derisive term much like how "white liberal" is a derisive term.

Not sure I understand... Do you mean like whites-only socialism? Because the expression "white liberal" is simply thrown around meaninglessly by the right in america, only to them is it a derisive term. I do agree there is a faction of feminists who only want it for their specific group.

Nah, there are plenty on the far left fringe who devalue others for being white, rich, straight, bi, gay, or male becsuse they a view of them as the privileged. Sometimes they have valid points on the behaviors or beliefs of an individual, but they do dress them up in disgusting displays of bigotry.

I'm talking about stuff like self-proclaimed progressives who refuse to acknowledge their own white privilege.

Here's a Slate article on the matter from August:

Why White Liberals Are So Unwilling to Recognize Their Own Racism

It's basically an interview with Robin Di Angelo, the person who coined the term "white fragility".

Nobody wants to acknowledge their own privileges, because then they might lose those privileges. Even if they are only subconsciously aware of that fact. It's just more obvious with white liberals because a key part of liberalism is pointing out privilege in order to bring about equality. So it's very easy to fall into a hypocrisy trap.

It's not the end of the world if you forget your own privilege and get called on it. Dust yourself off and do better next time. But people tend to get very defensive and refuse to accept their faults. There are articles about how you're more likely to fix a personal problem if you find it yourself rather than have it pointed out, but it's late and I'm too tired to find them right now.

Exactly this. Like, for example, liberal dudes (of any color) who refuse to admit that they’re sexist, even though they’re progressive on economic issues.

Edited by wisewillow on Oct 22nd 2018 at 7:31:32 AM

To clarify the white feminism arguments against WW a bit further:

• While there plenty of non-white Amazons on Themyscira, most didn't have speaking roles.

• The role of Hippolyta's general and Diana's combat instructor were given to Hippolyta's sister Antiope in the film. In the comics, these roles are filled by Philippus, a black Amazon who is in love with Hippolyta in the comics and is basically a second mom to Diana.

• While the movie does a commendable job with Chief and Sameer, women of color are pretty much absent outside of the Themyscira scenes.

Now the sequel does have the potential to correct this with Natasha Rothwell's casting. So fingers crossed.

Edited by windleopard on Oct 22nd 2018 at 5:03:01 AM

Eh, the numbers already have black repesentation being over represented back in 2016. Did they want equal to white representation?

Could you let me know where you're getting that? From the study you had, I'm only seeing "blacks are way less underrepresented than other minorities in movies" (page 23, Share of Film Roles, by Race, 2016). From page 26, blacks were overrepresented in broadcast TV roles, but that doesn't seem relevant when talking about a movie, after all.

> In the comics, these roles are filled by Philippus, a black Amazon who is in love with Hippolyta in the comics and is basically a second mom to Diana.

Yeah,that was'nt getting in,they're at least progressive enough to have a film where a woman is the superhero and is a main character,but not that progressive that a black woman would have a lover in the same film

We're lucky Wonder Woman was made at all really.

They could have Philippus appear and leave her love for Hippolyta unsaid.

I certainly wouldn’t have wanted them to kill of Phillipus in Antiope’s place, but they still could have had her appear in an advisory role to Hippolyta. This would ultimately be a minor role, though, considering that the movie doesn’t spend much time on Themyscira. Maybe for a future movie.

Oh Philippus does appear in the movie. She's the Amazon who argues for Steve to be kept alive for interrogation.

That's pretty much her entire role.

In the comics, Antiope lead a tribe of Amazons who splintered off from the Themyscirans after the war with Heracles and then settled in Egypt. They were called the Bana-Mighdall.

Also, the comics had Antiope dead before Diana was even born.

Edited by windleopard on Oct 22nd 2018 at 7:24:31 AM

"2018 Changed the Game for Halloween Costumes for Black Kids".

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Oct 24th 2018 at 7:04:30 AM

Glad to hear that.

Here's to hoping the other minorities get more too.