Miraculous Ladybug

@1624 Hmm... (looks at Astruc's CV)

Yup, he was a storyboard supervisor on Totally Spies!. He also did storyboards for Code Lyoko too (which also explains a bunch).

Remember, these episodes aren't necessarily in chronological order...

At this point I'd rather Chloe just kept being an awful person, maybe even up to eleven as Queen Bee. Then at least she won't be given some kind of undeserved redemption.

Surely if she stopped being an awful person she could earn that redemption?

I think it's more that without basically a scrap of anything sympathetic to her name for so long she's always been too annoying to want her to be anything more, something I blame on the writers. It's not hard to write a Lovable Alpha Bitch, and they've leant way too hard on Chloe just creating all their villains.

Hasn't she been pure awful for two seasons now? The writers would actually have to have her stop being so self-centered, or have her realize she does in fact create akumas and maybe she needs to stop. Or give her a big heaping of karma or something.

I really don't like these kinds of characters so she's too far gone for me, but a well-thought redemption arc in chronological order for once might endear her to others enough that giving her a Miraculous makes more sense.

Generally speaking, doing those things is what redemption arcs entail, yeah.

Redemption in fiction generally isn’t something that’s based on whether it’s deserved, but whether it can be developed. If the writers can develop her into a character that wants to change and is able to follow though with it, then all power to them.

Honestly? I like Chloe because she's a terrible person who has the potential to be good (As shown by her being Adrein's childhood friend and thus someone I can't see as completely terrible because I don't see Adrein as the type to be friends with her if she doesn't have some good side to her.). While I don't mind (spoiler for future events that I don't think have happened yet but have been shown as various cons over the past two years) her becoming a hero I don't want her to become a "good person." Let her be an asshole hero.

I think the problem with Chloe is that we're just not seeing any redeeming features to her. To compare to a previous work Astruc did, compare her to Sissi in Code Lyoko - both were spoiled Alpha Bitches that regularly abused their parents' positions as much as they could to get out of trouble and try (though usually failing) to get closer to the object of their crushes (Ulrich for Sissi; Adrien for Chloe). There's a pretty good argument that Chloe is a Captain Ersatz of Sissi. That said, the differences between the two are twofold. One, Sissi was shown to have some redeeming features pretty early on, whereas we're in season 2 of Miraculous with nothing to show for Chloe beyond a Freudian Excuse or two (and one that feels like it falls flat when you consider that Adrien has a potentially larger one that he doesn't indulge in). Two, Sissi was not nearly as responsible for other people's woes as Chloe is - sure, Sissi would screw things up from time to time, but she never caused anywhere near the level of problems that Chloe caused (I don't think Sissi was ever responsible for making any of XANA's attacks worse, while Hawk Moth might as well just have a cloud of akuma follow Chloe around... and I bet he's considered it).

That said, given how petty and low-level Chloe's deeds are, I wouldn't say she's beyond redemption. That said, it would be nice if they made moves to make her a Lovable Alpha Bitch like they did with Sissi. At the very least, building on the dawning awareness that Chloe had in "Despair Bear" would be a nice touch. (I'm starting to suspect that, in terms of chronology, "Despair Bear" is more meant to be later in the season.)

edited 16th May '18 7:02:54 AM by 32_Footsteps

The episodes not being in chronological order really doesn't help in trying to figure out whether a character's supposed to be developing or not.

You don't need an awful lot of time to establish a jerkass as redeemable. Mainly because all you really need is to establish a genuine desire to be better than they are.

In similarly reimagining their one-dimensional Alpha Bitch character into a less one-dimensional sympathetic sort-of friend to the protagonists, Gravity Falls really only needed one episode where she's forced to get to know the protagonists outside her comfort zone (but not really change), and a second episode to have her realize she was wrong and actually make a heroic effort to change. And it worked: she went from one of the series most hated characters to one of its more popular ones in record time.

Kim Possible did it one better and only needed a single episode to do it with their Alpha Bitch, though they were forced to backtrack due to issues with the way their intended series finale was written.

edited 16th May '18 4:28:57 PM by KnownUnknown

The issue's more that Chloe appeared in the majority of Season 1's episodes and almost always acted with spite towards pretty much everyone.

The other two examples only appeared sporadically, or a lot less than Chloe does.

So to me, and a lot others, it feels like "too little, too late". Especially because we have only got a couple of hints to her having a softer side so far.

It seems like the writers do understand this, since they're having a trilogy of episodes focusing on it probably.

But until then it just rubs a lot of people the wrong way that we've been told Marinette's long time bully is going to be a hero this season, but hasn't actually shown a single time that she really deserves a Miraculous.

Literally every other character in the class seems to be a better choice given Fu's shown method of choosing a user.

I think it's largely a problem generated by the fact that every other time they want to have a character be Akumatized they sic Chloe on them instead of coming up with more unique methods.

Unlike Bonnie and the Gravity Falls girl (I know the one you mean but I'm blanking on a name) who had sporadic appearances, Chloe's appeared in almost every episode and has been a douchebag in basically every appearance. And the fact that she's responsible indirectly for so much danger and destruction makes it a lot harder to root for her redemption than someone who's hostility is largely harmless, like Cordelia from Buffy (the prime example I think of the Lovable Alpha Bitch).

edited 16th May '18 5:57:23 PM by Sigilbreaker26

Alright, I'm finally all caught up.

I still really don't like Chloe, no matter what their teacher says.

I think this is first time in long time that I've watched the episode and recap page wasn't started yet. Getting sloppy, people. Not that I have much to say about "Troublemaker". Villain was kinda neat, if not all that threatening. I don't think I fully got the point of Lucky Charm this time around.

The plate was a way to mask the real trick

I felt bad for Marinette, but it was so worth it to see Adrien's shocked face.

I'm going to pretend he knows and was just giving her a cover to save her from embarrassment.

Knowing that Troublemaker is one of the villains for the upcoming villain team up episode, a lot of stuff in this episode stood out to me as making a lot of sense, to the point where I suspect that she was designed for that episode first and then the solo episode was penned later.

Powers wise, Troublemaker is in the perfect sweet spot for an ensemble villain: an ability that makes harassing multiple heroes at once easy while not being so strong that a single hero couldn't take her out if they were on the top of their game. At the same time, her ability is simple and won't draw attention away from other teammates. She's practically made to be in a big set.

Also, while Penny's problem of being overworked was dealt with, her actual problem of probably being in love with Jagged is conspicuously unaddressed.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 1st 2018 at 10:45:23 AM

Reverser was a really fun episode.

I see a lot of people shipping Nate and Marc. For good reason really.

It was also great to see Alix get some more screentime. She's been missing for a while I think.

In which Alix is the MVP. As usual, she makes up for having like no screentime elsewhere. Somebody get that girl a supersuit.

Also "sup kitty, got vertigo?" is now my favorite villain line in the entire series. I legit laughed out loud.

Halfway through this episode, I was thinking: this is cute and all, but the resulting war ship wars are going to be brutal.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 24th 2018 at 8:12:05 AM

Yes! Let the steady train of new episodes finally arrive!

"Might-illustrator"... "Mightyllustrator"...I don't know how you're supposed to spell it but it looks bad every time.

Ok, kinda odd costume...So are his powers, I see how they might be a nuisance, but it doesn't seem like that much of a threat... OK, GARBAGE FROM SPACE, WHY NOT. ONE WAY TO RAISE THE STAKES, I GUESS.

Look like we'll get an episode where Ladybug is affected by a villain's power for a change...No, CN, look out! Whoops, nevermind.

I'm disappointed that no one said something like "Great, Ladybug was transformed into Marinette!"

Who let Alix into a museum in rollerskates?

LB getting bonked on her head by her own Lucky Charm was easily the funniest part.

I think Alix's dad is the curator, so I guess she can do what she wants.

I think reverser restored my faith in this show. The jagged stone episode was good, but I feel like season 2 has been kind of disappointing. I hope this is a return to form. also thank you show for giving us more Alix.

also, I've been waiting for another episode with Nathaneal for almost forever it seems.

Also, this is another episode where the evil plan falls apart because Hawkmoth can't get his minions to listen to him for crap.

Reverser has Ladybug and Cat Noir dead to rights, then just goes "nah, I'll do it later" and Hawkmoth just kinds of sighs and goes "okay, fine."

What is up with the release schedule for new episodes? Do they throw a dart at a board?

This is once again the sort of problem you get when you use More than Mind Control. You convince someone they're doing something for themselves and not for you, and they'll try to get their own thing done when your thing isn't a priority.

Edited by SalFishFin on Jul 26th 2018 at 9:33:55 AM

Hawk Moth must be thinking sticking around just isn't worth it anymore and he should just go get lunch when things happen.