Official China Discussion Thread

@luisedgarf: I think you should tone down your rhetoric. I’m not an active member of this forum, but I do always try to catch up and read all the posts in the thread that I’m interested when I’m not active.

And for someone who repeatedly don’t want anything bad happen to Chinese people, you sure as fuck feel very eager and passionate about it in your posts. I’m not accusing you of anything. I just want to tell you that your posts can feel very disturbing to read or hysterical in tone, so tone it down, okay?

And no one say that CCP and Imperial Japan are the same 1:1. At worst, everyone here so far just said that CCP just remind them of some parts of Imperial Japan or seeing some parallels.

Edited by SteamKnight on May 16th 2020 at 11:10:26 PM

Of course I don't want anything to happen to Chinese citizens, what I meant was that the comparisons with Imperial Japan were too extreme, considering the historical backgrounds.

I agree that something has to be done about China and the CCP, but to suggest that China and all its inhabitants have to be destroyed with atomic weapons is something I would NEVER suggest, although I must admit that my problem is that I prefer to get to the point with my words without trying to nuance them.

Add to that the fact that English is not my main language may be the problem.

...You are aware that there was more to Imperial Japan than just being nuked, right? That to compare the two does not instantly mean advocating for nuclear war?

Edited by TheWildWestPyro on May 16th 2020 at 9:16:07 AM

You don’t get what tone it down means, huh? I don’t think English isn’t your main language is the problem here. English isn’t my main language, too, and I don’t go saying anyone here want to nuke China.

This is what I mean when most people’s knowledge about Imperial Japan is either attack on Pearl Harbor or the atomic bombing. Their “adventure” in East Asia or Southeast Asia is only for the history buffs.

Edited by SteamKnight on May 16th 2020 at 11:20:23 PM

I am only saying that the comparisons with Imperial Japan are too extreme, which is more or less what Pyro was saying, although perhaps my tone may have sounded too extreme for some.

Besides, I doubt very much that the Chinese will make the same mistakes that the Japanese made during World War II, that's for sure.

Edited by luisedgarf on May 16th 2020 at 11:24:59 AM

No it’s something you’d acuse numerous people in this thread of doing without any basis for that accusation, shockingly you’ve now put said people rather on the defensive.

Look, when you can honestly compare some parts of or seeing some parallels between the current USA administration and actual NAZI to the point that even Godwin himself come down and tell that his law don’t apply there, doing the same thing with the current CCP administration and Imperial Japan isn’t as extreme as you seem to imply. Once again, this is just comparing some parts or seeing some parallels. I’m pretty sure that anyone who do it with the USA and nazi isn’t calling for anyone to bomb USA like the allied do to Dresden.

Edited by SteamKnight on May 16th 2020 at 11:30:37 PM

That's something we should worry about as well. If it's bad enough that we have to worry about China and its aspirations, the fact that the U.S. could become an authoritarian and racist regime is just as bad, if not worse, and we should add Russia to the mix.

This is coming from someone who has the U.S. as a neighbor and we have to deal with its influence, for better or for worse.

Edited by luisedgarf on May 16th 2020 at 11:39:00 AM

You just said that you don’t believe that China will become as bad as Imperial Japan and you believe this thread is too extreme.

And then you go all the way to claim that USA could become as bad as Nazi or even worse. And even add Russia to the mix because reasons I guess.

Are you sure this thread is the extreme one here?

Edited by SteamKnight on May 16th 2020 at 11:47:27 PM

What I'm trying to say is that having three world powers with leaders who have intentions of world domination (China and Russia) or who are progressively becoming more authoritarian (U.S. under Trump), and more if those three countries have enough weapons that can destroy the world several times is not good for anyone, especially in the midst of a global epidemic.

World domination is rather an exaggeration, regional domination and primary geo-political status sure, but nobody is after actual world domination.

...Yeah, I’m just going to assume that you live in Fallout universe. That explains everything I suppose.

Be careful! Who knows what’ll happen next. Sauron could be masquerading as Xi or Putin and it’s up to the Mystery Machine to uncover the truth.

Edited by SteamKnight on May 17th 2020 at 12:09:01 AM

I'm using "world domination" in the political sense, not the literal one.

There are many ways to achieve world domination beyond the typical Take Over the World you see in fiction, one could argue that the global use of the usonian dollar is one type of world domination for instance.

Edited by raziel365 on May 16th 2020 at 11:48:57 AM

US imperialism in Latin America is honestly pretty damn unnerving when you consider that they essentially made Brazil a US protectorate under the military regime, to the point that they never had to garrison troops because the Brazilian Army was there to do it for them, and crush all resistance.

And Brazil is huge.

The closer you get to the superpowers' backyard, the more vicious they get - which is why you have Poland and Romania in such terrible conditions regarding the Soviets.

Edited by TheWildWestPyro on May 17th 2020 at 12:09:04 PM

News broke out of Tel Aviv that the Chinese ambassador was found dead in his residence.

Apparently it's not being treated as suspicious.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-middle-east-52696833

Israeli police think he died naturally.

@Pyro: It's hard to put the blame solely on the US' shoulders: the military regima did have a lot of support from the (white, middle-class, southern) population, and Brazil has historically always tried to cozy it up with the big Imperialist powers de jour.

Hell, we still do.

I think context matters when we're talking about such comparisons, comparing individual policies or behaviors such as paternalistic racism isn't necessarily a problem. But I definitely agree that general comparisons are inappropriate considering how extreme Imperial Japan was.

It's defacto whitewashing them, and frankly kind of messed up considering that China was previously victimized by them.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on May 17th 2020 at 9:02:45 AM

Saying the CCP is edging into Imperial Japan territory isn't whitewashing Imperial Japan. It's highlighting just how bad the CCP is getting.

Considering that the modern CCP is not as bad as Imperial Japan, it's absolutely whitewashing Imperial Japan.

Call me when they do anything comparable to the Rape of Nanking or the millions of dead Chinese civilians.

Racism doesn't become less bad if it's not compared to a significantly worse actor, same with their other sins.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on May 17th 2020 at 9:02:22 AM

Pyro already listed all of the common ground the CCP has with Imperial Japan.

And it's not like the CCP is a stranger to slaughtering innocents. Tiananmen anyone? And they weren't even at war with anyone at the time. They were killing their own people.

Maybe it's easier for you to ignore these disturbing signs since you don't live in or near mainland China.

Edited by M84 on May 18th 2020 at 12:05:48 AM

What part of "Imperial Japan did far worse things" is so difficult to understand?

I am not saying that the CCP hasn't killed innocent people, I am saying that nothing they are doing is comparable to Imperial Japan.

As I said, you can criticize them without comparing them to a far worse state. It's not worth whitewashing Imperial Japan.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on May 17th 2020 at 9:21:00 AM

And what part of "the CCP has a lot more in common with Imperial Japan than those of us living near the CCP are comfortable with" so hard to understand?