Teen Titans (2003)

That's kind of the whole point of this character arc. He doesn't trust them as much as he should — that's what the Red X crap was. Him trying to do everything by himself is what got him in this mess.

IIRC there was a theory for a while that Slade was Batman, doing an elaborate Secret Test of Character to see if Robin was ready to operate solo, and nobody was ever in actual danger from his schemes.

Except the earlier plans Slade enacted such as sicing the Hive students on the Titans and the mess with Thunder and Lightning and the fire golem caused genuine danger and destruction.

Batman wouldn't risk that even for the sake of a test.

They were tests, but Slade of course didn't give a crap if anyone got hurt or killed.

Edited by M84 on Apr 1st 2024 at 11:16:26 PM

That season finale does seem to plant that theory, though, with bats flying up when Robin tells Slade he already has a father, and with Slade hiding his identity when his mask gets damaged, and how he seems deadset on having Robin as an apprentice for whatever reason, even going as far as sparing his friends to leave that door open.

The fight with Robin is also on top of Wayne tower, which sure seems symbolic as well.

No, the point of the Wayne Enterprises thing was to show that Slade is forcing Robin to rob his own adopted father's company. Slade's probably not aware of that, but it makes what Robin is forced to do all the worse.

And the bats were a reminder to audiences whom Robin considers his father.

The Teen Titans series kept the Batman references very subtle and far between, probably to keep Robin from being overshadowed. For the most part, Robin's past as Dick Grayson and his time as Batman's partner aren't emphasized in this series. We just get a few scenes like the bats and a brief flashback to a broken trapeze handle (a callback to how Dick's parents the Flying Graysons were killed).

Edited by M84 on Apr 2nd 2024 at 4:50:08 PM

Sure, I agree, that's reasonable. But I think at that point in the series, there was just about enough room for that theory. Batman has had pretty abusive relationships with some Robins in the comics too, after all.

Not to that extent. Even All Star Batman didn't put other people at risk just to test Robin — he just put Dick himself through hell.

That theory is a complete willful misunderstanding of what kind of character Batman is.

Edited by M84 on Apr 2nd 2024 at 4:51:09 PM

Oh, good point, I see what you mean.

Ithink theory exists just because Slade made such a mystery it felt like someone has to be behind that mask and it's not like we had any suspects.

Those familiar with the comics know he's already an established DC character. Slade's his real name, Slade Wilson. His comics code name is Deathstroke the Terminator.

I guess maybe a character named Deathstroke was deemed too much for the show and the tone the writers wanted.

While his full face isn't revealed even when his mask was broken, what little we did see — white hair, a hint of wrinkles, only one eye — matches Slade Wilson's appearance in the comics.

Slade's fixation on Robin is also consistent with the comics. Of all the Teen Titans, Slade Wilson hated and yet respected Dick Grayson the most. Despite the age difference Slade saw Dick as an Arch-Enemy and never passes up a chance to fight him one on one. Dick for his part is just sick of the old man's constant attempts to hurt and kill him and his loved ones.

Edited by M84 on Apr 2nd 2024 at 5:52:00 PM

I guess that's just another variation on the weird parasocial relationship villains have with their heroes. Like, he could have finished off the entire Teen Titans team right then and there, but he doesn't.

I guess that's the problem with making the villain so powerful, it means that he has to hold back to some extent, which makes it look like he has ulterior motives to do so when really the only reason is because there wouldn't be a show any more if he did win.

And I'm not that familiar with the comics other than through Linkara, so perhaps my view is skewed a bit towards the bad end of the canon.

And those nanobots just conveniently go away at the end of the finale, because that, too, is just too powerful to keep the show going on.

Edited by Redmess on Apr 2nd 2024 at 12:00:14 PM

I think another reason for the vague Batman is also the whole Bat embargo thing going on? Maybe it was done by then though.

Another thing I've noticed this first season is that it is never really explained why the Teen Titans are a thing in the first place, or what it means to be a "Titan". They seem to have some history, yet don't seem to be friends beyond being on the same team (there is a whole episode on Raven and Starfire getting to know each other, for one). The show is generally rather vague about how well they know each other or how long they have been a team.

Or why they live in a T-shaped tower, for that matter, or why they don't seem to go to school despite being teenagers, or, well, any sort of outside support. They live in a sort of vacuum apart from all other superheroes, it seems.

They actually do reveal how the team got together in one episode.

The show is actually pretty faithful to the comics. It changes some things of course, but most of the main story beats are based on comics story arcs.

Edited by M84 on Apr 2nd 2024 at 8:25:06 PM

So, I'm going to at least offer my two cents on what that whole deal with Slade is all about, if you guys don't mind. Slade not destroying Robin and his team first thing, even in spite of how powerful he was, because of how freaking good the writers and animators were at their jobs, made me think of him more as someone who wanted to give Robin the message... that he is in his head, his every waking second. He could have laid Robin and them out flat, but opted not to… wanting them on their toes, wanting them to lose sleep, wanting to manifest in their every nightmare.

He's not actually that powerful. He has some superpowers, but they just make him more like a Captain America level human.

That's why he resorts to the schemes and manipulations he does.

Edited by M84 on Apr 2nd 2024 at 8:35:10 PM

Most people familiar with the comics weren't making up this show's audience, and were aware that the show was vastly different from the comics though.

Not that different as I said. The main story arcs are inspired by the comics. They did change the Judas Contract quite a bit though.

The show was an adaptation that was its own thing and could be appreciated by newcomers, but still had enough familiar elements and cues to the original material to be appreciated by DC comics fans.

That's how most good adaptations should go.

And it doesn't make the "Slade is really Batman" theory any less weird. I've made up my share of headcanons too, but none of them required completely throwing out everything established about the characters or the themes.

Let's put it this way — you really think Batman would have been cool with an organization like the HIVE that exploits and raises kids to be supervillains? Much less hiring them to attack Robin and the other Titans as a "test"?

Edited by M84 on Apr 2nd 2024 at 10:06:47 PM

I should note that those aspects are not revealed yet in season one, and if you don't know him from the comics, you would have very little information to go on at this point.

That's the main issue with your rejection of that theory: it relies on information from outside the show, or from later in the series. Just going by the first season of this show alone, that theory is not that outlandish.

No, it's absolutely silly. It's a theory based on people who take the interpretation of Batman as a manipulative jerk and exaggerate it to the point of idiocy.

Someone who was actually completely ignorant of any DC stuff before watching the show wouldn't even recognize the references to Batman.

Batman being the antagonist is the kind of ridiculous plot that suits Teen Titans Go, and that's because that show didn't take itself seriously.

Edit:

Also, Batman really wouldn't be the kind of person who would sic Plasmus on the Titans, especially over the poor guy's screaming protests.

Edited by M84 on Apr 2nd 2024 at 10:18:23 PM

I feel like thinking Slade is Batman is a theory that only works if you're catching these episodes on the TV at random, and not sitting down and binging them.

Like, in season one you have an episode where he tricks Thunder and Lightning into summoning a mythical creature to commit mass destruction.

You basically have to ignore almost everything Slade does in the first season.

Did people still hold on to that theory even when Slade was slowly and painfully killing the Titans with the nanobots to force Robin to follow his orders?

Edited by M84 on Apr 2nd 2024 at 10:23:00 PM

Honestly that doesn't sound all that different from what Batman does nowadays to his own allies.

I'd call Teen Titans a soft logic show. Titans live in giant T, never take off their costumes, and never use their real names (almost) while new villains pop out every week without explanation. This is not the kind of show where they'll answer everything. In fact there is a lot they'll never answer.

It's one of those shows where it's fine that they don't answer everything, because the action and the character interactions are the real appeal.