Netflix Daredevil

Some things should definitely be left on the cutting room floor. The benefit of adaptation is that you get to employ hindsight to the stories you adapt and go, "Wow. When all's said and done, that actually makes the hero looks really shitty." And then maybe not do the same things.

Even the Iron Man movies knew that cutting down on Tony's womanizing was probably a good idea, and he's the biggest man-ho in the Marvel Universe.

Even bigger than Starfox? Daaaaaang

Pretty sure Wolverine has that title. Starfox is more "potential sexual predator".

edited 21st Mar '18 8:44:46 AM by windleopard

Jay Ali Joins the Cast for Season 3 of Daredevil

Marvel Television and Netflix announced that “The Fosters” actor Jay Ali has been cast in the third season of “Marvel’s Daredevil,” where he will portray Rahul “Ray” Nadeem, an honest, but ambitious FBI agent willing to go to any length for his family.

He joins returning cast including, Charlie Cox (Matt Murdock/Daredevil), Deborah Ann Woll (Karen Page), Elden Henson (Foggy Nelson), as well as Vincent D’Onofrio, reprising his popular role as Wilson Fisk. All episodes of the first two seasons of “Marvel’s Daredevil” are now streaming on Netflix.

“We are thrilled to welcome Jay into our stellar cast,” said Jeph Loeb, Executive Producer and Marvel’s Head of Television. “His storyline and riveting performance will captivate our fans in the third season of ‘Marvel’s Daredevil.’”

“I love Jay Ali,” added Executive Producer and Showrunner, Erik Oleson. “It isn’t easy to join a cast as talented as ‘Marvel’s Daredevil’ – and Jay blew us all out of the water with his audition. His moving performance in Season 3 will show the world that he’s a star in the making.”

I'm reareading Guardian Devil to make sure I didn't miss anything regarding the treatment of women. I'm two issues in and I'm not seeing anything particularly heinous (Karen aside). Natasha is doing her thing, Gwyneth isn't a bad character and whatnot. Really, the core of the story is and remains religious struggle of Matt Murdock

What exactly was your problem with the story that makes it unadaptable? Because the core premise is entirely unrelated to any brutalizing of women. Matt struggling with whether the baby he's found is the Antichrist or not.

OK, I'll admit, Karen getting fridged was probably the big problem I had with Guardian Devil.

To change the subjects, one thing I hope for season 3 is that all the personal conflict from season 2 won't just get swept under the rug and forgotten. That's a big deal especially when it comes to Matt's relationship with Karen. Because Matt and Foggy clearly resolved some of their stuff offscreen between Season 2 and The Defenders, but Matt and Karen clearly didn’t. Probably because The Defenders writers didn't care too much about Karen as a character, or about Matt and Karen’s relationship. That's what frustrates me a lot, and I think it’s a real problem with the long gaps between one season and the next for all these shows: they end a season with things unresolved, but then they wait, sometimes as long as a year or more in real time, before we see the character again, and the new season always skips ahead over months of in-show time instead of picking up where the last one left off. It leaves a lot of good, interesting stuff that must have happened during the gap, which we just never get to see. (And in Matt's case, there's the matter of "how long will Matt be staying 'dead'? Unless he is in a coma or has amnesia, that’s going to take some serious explaining come season 3)

I found the Foggy stuff a logical conclusion but also rather abrupt. At some point Foggy had to work out Matt can't just opt out of being a superhero because he's consistently been the one thing standing in evil's path for three seasons in a goddamn row and eventually Foggy had to face facts that Matt's work is vital to Hell's Kitchen. It's just a real shame we couldn't see this actually unfolding on-screen instead of Foggy just going "well yeah you need to be DD."

With Karen I'm more ok with because I think their conversation in Defenders clear things up decently.

My guess would be that as I mentioned before, they'll blend Born Again with Murdock Papers. So Matt will spend a while licking his wounds with his mother Sister Maggie, and when he returns it'll be a very slow process because he'll be physically wrecked and unable to sustain himself, so he'll likely go to live with Karen or Foggy, having to rely on them both while he re-establishes himself. He won't be able to fully remember what went down after his "death", and it'll come back to him slowly over the season.

If they're following the structure of Murdock Papers I'm guessing Fisk will sell Murdock's secret Identity to the FBI for a chance of being absolved and thus the FBI will set their sights on Daredevil. After being released Fisk will then shift gears into Born Again by proceeding to utterly ruin Matt's life which naturally means he'll find a way to get Karen fired from her job (this is likely where Karen's dark past will come into play) and a way to get Foggy dismissed from Hogarth's firm (and possibly implicating both on some sort of crime to get them arrested), then (maybe via whatever deal he'd make with the FBI) getting Matt disbarred from practicing law.

Then we go to the point Matt visits his dad's boxing gym to revisit old memories before the place is promptly blown up to smithereens and Matt goes into full "wandering hobo with depression" mode until we get to Fisk thinking he's dead and Matt putting the pieces of what went down together right before collapsing in front of Sister Maggie. By which point Matt will do his usual shtick of getting back with a vengeance and Nelson & Murdock will be reborn phoenix-like from the ashes.

Also, calling it now: Father Lantom and Sister Maggie know each other.

If they're following the structure of Murdock Papers I'm guessing Fisk will sell Murdock's secret Identity to the FBI for a chance of being absolved and thus the FBI will set their sights on Daredevil.

@Gaon - See I don't know, I want to see the boundaries of story telling pushed and them to not be too beholden to the comics. This show has done a fantastic job at adapting style and tone and overall feel from the comics while breaking new ground on character and story. Like yes, have some stuff torn straight out of the comics so we can geek out as a collective whole, and then go back to telling us an awesome and very original story unique to this version of Daredevil.

Personally, I think this is gonna be like Madani and Frank being after the same thing in The Punisher season 1. The FBI wants to put away Fisk for killing a number of their◊ agents◊, as well as racketeering, fraud, and a boatload of other charges. Matt wants to put away Fisk to protect Hell's Kitchen. Karen wants to keep Fisk from finding out that she killed Wesley.

So Matt will spend a while licking his wounds with his mother Sister Maggie, and when he returns it'll be a very slow process because he'll be physically wrecked and unable to sustain himself, so he'll likely go to live with Karen or Foggy, having to rely on them both while he re-establishes himself. He won't be able to fully remember what went down after his "death", and it'll come back to him slowly over the season.

Obviously it's just speculation since no concrete plot details are known, but I imagine that they would probably not go for an amnesia storyline for Matt. Although I do imagine him having to rely on Karen to re-establish himself (I said a while back that it would make more sense for Karen to learn Matt is alive first, so we can for once have Karen, not Foggy, be privy to things about Matt). Personally, I think Matt's loft apartment is in good hands. Either Foggy's paying rent on it, or Danny bought the building.

And I for one really do want Matt to reveal he's alive sooner rather than later, if only so that he has someone on his core cast to talk to. It's much the same reason why The Punisher needed to have Frank stay in touch with Curtis and also partner up with David.

Also, calling it now: Father Lantom and Sister Maggie know each other.

Seconded here. In fact I think there's some evidence that they do know each other: in episode 3 of season 1, when Father Lantom finds Matt sitting on the bench outside the church, he recognizes Matt as "Jack Murdock's kid" like he's very acquainted with the Murdocks and knew Matt's parents. How ironic would it be if Father Lantom secretly knows Matt is alive this whole time.

I think you can have your cake and eat it too in this case. The Murdock Papers storyline is great because it A) is legitimately tense puts Matt in great danger B) it allows Fisk a actually somewhat plausible "Get Out of Jail Free" Card.

My guess would be that the Wilson Bethel character is Leeland Drummond, who is the villainous FBI agent who gives Fisk immunity in exchange for Murdock's secret identity, while Jay Ali might be the sympathetic FBI agent (no idea who) who over the course of the season realizes this was a stupid idea and ends up helping Matt.

My meaning was more that he'd forget the specific details of his survival of the building escape and recovery. He'd still know everything else, but that particular incident would be nebulous, so the show could retain the twist of Sister Maggie being Matt's mother until she plays her role in Born Again towards the end of the season. Also to retain the doubt whether Elektra survived or not.

But we don't know if season 3 is doing anything from "Murdock Papers" or not. In fact, it could based on no existing storylines and just be an original story.

Hell, the last shot of The Defenders left many people convinced that season 3 would be an adaptation of Born Again. When Charlie Cox was asked about this in an interview, he said:

"That [Born Again]'s such an amazing story. Everyone who loves Daredevil loves Born Again. You can't not. And if that's the case, then the implications of that would be very exciting to me. That would be great. Having said that, I know we don't tend to follow any story blueprints too closely, because if you do, then you become a foregone conclusion. There may be elements from Born Again, but I'm sure there will be elements that are unfamiliar and surprising and different in order for the show to be compelling to fans who know the comics very well. If we start making Born Again page-for-page, then the people who have read it and loved it — the hardcore fans — they won't have too much drama."

That's what I'm getting at. They’ll take small elements from a few notable comics storylines to give the comic fans something to geek out over, but for the most part create a totally original story.

In fact, as of this post, there's nothing solid to establish which storylines season 3 will be lifting material from. That they may be lifting stuff from Murdock Papers is merely rumors at this point.

edited 24th Mar '18 4:48:27 PM by dmcreif

We'll see. In either case we're basically doing guesswork, but there are hints something from Murdock Papers is making it in (heavy FBI presence, Fisk being released from jail, Murdock's secret identity being at stake).

Season 1 borrowed a lot from Miller's The Man Without Fear but also a lot from Miller's other arcs in his early run (like Fisk's expanded role, the Hand showing up, Phik Ulrich's role), Season 2 is more or less a mismash from Elektra's arc in Miller's run with liberal shades of Garth Ennis's The Punisher and Daredevil storyarcs sprinkled throughout. Every season has been blending and shaking up elements from multiple storyarcs, so I doubt season 3 will just stick to Born Again.

Mind you, I never understood the Murdock Papers argument.

The Kingpin—the most powerful mob boss in American history (less so in the show but still guilty of thousands of crimes) gets off free because he turns in Daredevil's identity. In the show he's also a copkiller.

A man who is, at most, a guy guilty of beating up a bunch of people in a silly outfit.

I mean, if they were agents of Hydra it'd make sense, but that was never true.

It's not completely realistic but it's a better "Get Out of Jail Free" Card than most when once considers that a illegal vigilante madman in tights continuously making a mockery out of the NYPD and the FBI when it comes to catching criminals (and himself) would be pretty high on the FBI's shitlist. Even more when you are somewhat acquainted with the actual arc and see that the FBI agent in charge of this is a Jerkass Glory Hound trying to make a name for himself as "the man who caught Daredevil".

I've began finding the storyline a lot more plausible after James Comey hurled through a window every principle a FBI agent should have to interfere in 2016 elections.

The Kingpin—the most powerful mob boss in American history (less so in the show but still guilty of thousands of crimes) gets off free because he turns in Daredevil's identity. In the show he's also a copkiller.

I don't buy it either. Fisk has killed FBI agents. They're not going to agree to any deals he might bring to them. To the contrary, I see the New York FBI field office being more willing to ally with Matt before they ever strike a deal with Fisk. I think they'll make public enemies but private partners of Daredevil in much the same way Matt has been doing things with Brett.

When did Fisk kill FBI agents?

@windleopard During his attempted escape from custody in the season 1 finale. The hired mercs gunned down the FBI and NYPD personnel in the escort before freeing Fisk from the truck, and one of the agents in the truck with Fisk was on his payroll.

I'm kinda expecting that season 3 will see Matt's connection with Karen be expanded on while Foggy gets to grow as a character independent of Matt. It was brought up in The Defenders discussion thread how this version of Karen is much more of an individual character than Foggy, given how Foggy's story arcs are very much beholden to Matt. Like, Foggy's relationship with Matt was fleshed out because before "Nelson v. Murdock" there was not much to him as an independent character. Whereas Karen's relationship with Matt wasn't fleshed out because she was an individual character outside of said relationship.

Come season 3, I think we'll see the scales shift. Matt's relationship with Karen will get more fleshing out while Foggy will get room to grow as an independent character. With Elektra out of the way, and Foggy having moved on to Jeryn Hogarth & Associates, it only makes sense. (And with Karen and Foggy's new jobs, I kinda expect that Ellison and Marci will have larger roles in season 3)

Confirmation that we will be finally exploring Karen Page's past in season 3. Well they don't say that in the article, but going off all the Fagan Corners signage, we all know what they're really doing.

Certainly Karen's mom will be a part of whatever the trip up to Fagan Corners entails: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10155823408196939&id=46527396938

The Catskill Mountain Country Store & Restaurant in Windham is being used as a diner called Penny's Place. Penelope Page is the name of Karen's mother in the comics, and 'Penny' is a nickname variant of that.

Here's a link for non-Facebook◊ users◊.

edited 31st Mar '18 1:01:42 PM by dmcreif

And here's some drone footage of them setting up what I think is the car accident that killed Karen's brother (based on the 1990s Jeep Cherokees being used for crash vehicles).

I mentioned a certain person on Reddit over in the Luke Cage thread. He said some things about Daredevil season 3, but I won't list them here for obvious reasons.]]

edited 9th Apr '18 4:23:04 PM by dmcreif

Charlie Cox had two panels this past weekend, at the Dallas Fan Expo on Saturday and the C2E2 in Chicago on Sunday. Not much he can say about season 3, obviously, due to filming being still underway and spoiler lockdown, though he's revealed some small tidbits.

Namely, about Matt's character arc (from the Dallas panel):

He continues to say the same things he's said for a while about Matt's attachment to Karen (also from Dallas):

(He continues to talk about this pairing in the present tense, which suggests to me that Matt and Karen's Will They or Won't They? is far from over. And given all that's known about Karen's story arc - she's confronting her past, and she's also taking over Ben's role as Matt's newspaper contact - this seems inevitable at least to me)

From the sounds of it, they must be close to wrapping filming on season 3, with SpoilerTV giving the show a wrap date of May 14, this Monday.

And what is most baffling is still the high amount of secrecy surrounding the project. Outside of Matt, Karen, Foggy, and Fisk, and the two new FBI characters played by Wilson Bethel and Jay Ali, we don't know anything else about other returning series regulars.

For one, they haven't made a confirmation announcement for the return of Stephen Rider as Blake Tower. I'm hoping to see Tower take a bit more of an active role with some agency of his own, now that he's District Attorney and no longer a subordinate to Reyes. Maybe he'll take part in the prosecution of Fisk for Detective Blake's murder.

Nor have they made a casting announcement for Ayelet Zurer as Vanessa Marianna. And I kinda think there's no way Vanessa doesn't come back. I get the feeling that, with them continuing to have Matt's and Fisk's arcs parallel each other, they'll have Vanessa take on a bit more active role in her fiancee's criminal ventures, given Fisk has lost much of his outside power and a lot of his former allies are dead or in hiding. Maybe Vanessa has been setting up the necessary connections and all that for when Fisk gets released. Which, if it's the case, will probably nicely juxtapose with Karen similarly cementing herself into Matt's Daredevil activities and taking up Ben Urich's role as Matt's newspaper ally.

When it comes to the recurring characters, the only supporting cast member who has outright been confirmed to be involved in season 3 has been Amy Rutberg as Marci Stahl. Marvel hasn't made any official announcement on it, but Rutberg cryptically confirmed her involvement in this interview with Vulkan Magazine from last month. (When asked about upcoming projects, her response was, "I have a super secret project I’ve been working on since November that will be out later this year," which is obviously Daredevil given that shooting began on November 13th). I'm not yet sure how much of a part Marci will have in season 3, but I imagine it will be significantly larger than her part in seasons 1 and 2 combined, probably to the point of her becoming the second female lead. I'm basing this on the fact that, from what I can see from following her on Twitter and Instagram, Rutberg has not left the New York City area since the beginning of January (even doing some comedy skit work on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert as a side gig). Not to mention that the only upcoming project of hers besides Daredevil is a remake of Get Christie Love that's only just started shooting.

There has not yet been any official confirmation of Geoffrey Cantor returning as Mitchell Ellison, but he's probably a no-brainer given Karen will be starting season 3 at the Bulletin. And like Amy Rutberg, following Cantor on social media gets me the impression that he's been in the New York City area most of the winter too. And I'm still kinda hoping that Royce Johnson is returning as Brett Mahoney, given that he was a pretty integral part of the Fisk case. I'm also kinda hoping Father Lantom returns and will have a slightly larger part than his one-scene cameos from season 2 and The Defenders.

And they've clearly done a good job at keeping plot details under wraps, because outside of Karen's past being explored, we don't know any other story beats at this point in time.

Here’s hoping for Mike Murdock.

I know they must be wrapping Daredevil within the next few days, given when Charlie Cox's convention schedule is supposed to kick off (he'll be doing an appearance at Orlando Mega Con on Memorial Day Weekend, followed by appearing with Krysten Ritter at Comicpalooza in Houston). But alas, whether Daredevil season 3 or Iron Fist season 2 is scheduled first is probably going to be revealed closer to when Luke Cage season 2 drops, or at SDCC in July at the latest (since I'm betting they're doing separate Daredevil and Iron Fist panels there).