Misused: The Southpaw

If the trope is being reverted to being defined as being left-handed granting a character an advantage (which I'm all in favor of), why not a name change to "Southpaw Advantage," "Lefty Advantage," or something similar? Change the subject of the trope from the character to the advantage.

A character being forced to develop their naturally non-dominant hand (what we've been calling Situational Southpaw) would, it seems to me, be an entirely different trope. Take it to YKTTW if there are enough examples to justify it.

edited 13th Feb '15 10:56:47 AM by hbi2k

In that case, should it be limited to the left limb? Shanks from One Piece is a lefty, but he sacrificed his left arm to save Luffy and is now forced to use his right for the rest of his life.

No, I don't think it matters which was dominant. Just that they have to learn how to use the other side to deal with an injury.

I still think "special character, written as a lefty" is a viable thing.

Again, Link in the Zelda games is notably left-handed, and it sets him apart from the rest of the characters, but it's never shown as an advantage.

Until Skyward Sword in which he was made right handed for the motion controls to fit with the majority.

... still a sore spot for me.

Well for Lefties I can see a non-conformist Trope as long as the work calls attention to it in the work itself or it was choice by the creator in any drawn work IE Animation, comics and video games outside Ambidextrous Sprite. Because by default every one is right handed in a work itself.

And a 'doesn't work well for lefties' such as if a Lefty can only find right handed scissors or have controls adjusted for lefties.

edited 19th Feb '15 6:21:03 PM by Memers

Bumping based on discussion in this thread.

In addition to the question of what exactly the trope is, I'd also like to raise the issue of whether the name is particularly intelligible. Speaking as an American who has lived in two fairly different parts of the country, I've literally never heard this term for left-handed people before, or even encountered it in fiction. It's been suggested that it's primarily associated with baseball fandom, which... feels a little too obscure, honestly.

I can only second that The Southpaw should by all means be rolled back to what it was created as; which is, left-handers having an advantage in certain competitive situations. It was an okay trope before it got watered down by drive-by editors who have unilaterally "expanded" the definition in a way that made it meaningless.

"Situational Southpaw" should be excluded. It's possibly a valid trope, but it's not the same trope.

I don't agree that left-handedness without any further context, impact or significance is a defining characteristic. I mean, it's possible there are more left-hander tropes that we have not covered, but so long as we can't pin down what the significance is, there's no trope.

Regarding the name, I don't actually think it's so bad, because the term "southpaw" originates in sports (especially baseball and boxing) where left-handedness is perceived as an advantage. If you understand that background, the name makes sense and is representative of the trope definition. The relative obscurity of the term is not inherently bad, because we actually would not want a trope name that is merely a paraphrase of 'left-handedness'. I only learned this term from TV Tropes, and it seemed like a well-chosen trope name to me. I'm open for suggestions, but I don't think the name is a critical problem.

edited 1st Mar '15 9:47:47 AM by LordGro

Would calling the trope The Lefty be bad?

Anyways, I don't really understand how being lefty is advantageous. Sorry to be an idiot but can somebody explain?

Because it switches things up. say a Boxer is using the Southpaw stance where the stance is the opposite of what it normally is and the heaviest punches are from the other hand, the problem is not many trainers can teach this.

And while a few right handers can stance switch to this, as most fighters lack experience fighting vs this stance, lefties have a 'southpaw advantage' with it as it is natural to them, on the other hand some lefties use the orthodox stance and lose their southpaw advantage.

Baseball its the same thing the ball is coming from the opposite hand so all pitches are different.

I see.

Btw there's a ykttw called Ambidextrous Badass that sounds similar to what you said. That should be related.

Handedness is a big deal in Boxing, well fighting in general is big. The name Southpaw I think comes from Boxing and just got passed off to baseball.

Southpaws in Baseball have a huge advantage, they make better First basemen by having more favorable angles to allow them to throw the ball more quickly across the diamond to second, third and home. Lefty Pitchers are much much harder to steal off of from first base etc. http://www.livescience.com/2665-baseball-rigged-lefties.html Note: Lefty catchers are not big as they have a hard time dealing with the massive number of right handed batters.

I actually wouldnt be opposed to renaming this to The Southpaw Advantage like the boxing name which is the fact that lefties have the advantage using the southpaw stance.

edited 1st Mar '15 11:15:54 PM by Memers

I'm in favor of the rename.

But I also agree that there should be a split between this and the "Situational Southpaw" one.

Southpaw Advantage is the perfect name for what this trope is trying to focus on and makes it not just a list of left handed characters. Situational Southpaw should also be a thing.

Though, the pain in the ass will be separating the "Left-handedness is helpful" from "Off-handededness because your dominant hand can't be used".

AND THEN THERE'S THE CHARACTERS WHO COMBINE BOTH

Trope overlap just means examples go on both tropes.

What about when being a lefty gives you problems, such as the aforementioned "right-handed tools" thing? Is it a separate trope?

That would be a different trope yes, many who deal with that train themselves to be Ambidextrous over time.

Naturally Ambidextrous would be a different one as well, occasionally crops up as a plot point, only 1 out of 100 people are this and in fiction its way way lower and almost always a plot point and a possible reason why someone might be a gifted Surgeon, Boxer, Typist, Pianist etc.

As is characters who were suppose to be right handed are revealed to be left handed or vice versa, typically a Reveal Trope.

edited 17th Mar '15 12:14:25 AM by Memers

We already have that last one: I Am Not Left-Handed.

That's not what Memers was talking about.

I Am Not Left-Handed is when a character is holding back in a fight, only to reveal that they were and proceed to wipe the floor with their opponent.

Characters who were suppose to be right handed are revealed to be left handed are holding back by using their non-dominant hand. Also, "wiping the floor with their opponent" is not a requirement of the trope.

edited 18th Mar '15 8:11:11 AM by crazysamaritan

No I was talking about someone who was supposed to be say left handed but it is discovered that they are actually right handed a sign of the person not being who they say they are. Example, Star Trek TNG used it once to signify they were on a holodeck.

edited 18th Mar '15 11:08:52 AM by Memers

Oh, that's one of the tell tropes. I'll see if I can find it again, but we have it already and it's broader than handedness.

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