General Politics Thread

The flu is still remembered here, even if it's mostly because two of the 3 kids who were part of the Our Lady of Fátima apparitions (who were cannonized by Pope Francis 2 years ago) died of it.

I don't forget the 'flu. My grunkle Lewis (Gran's oldest big brother — and the only one to come back) didn't die of it when he got it... Which is, perhaps, a hint as to why he never quite recovered from it, either: weird immune system (that 'flu basically killed those who caught it and who had fairly standard immune responses... which was then stuck in overdrive mode — usually, 'flu kills more of the people who have weak immune responses that can't overclock for short periods). He committed suicide about eight years afterwards. PTSD from the trenches + survivor's guilt (he didn't die with the rest of his squad because he was one of those sidelined by the 'flu) + what we now suspect was chronic fatigue syndrome + no therapists.

He went out without a coat. In January. In a snow storm. Was found on a park bench overlooking his old school. Yup: no accident, but recorded as such so he could be buried in the family plot. Personal opinion: we should really ask to bury him back with the bulk of his squad, whatever Great-granddad thought about it. He did ask.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Jun 21st 2019 at 10:32:52 AM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003drl8/episodes/player

Something this thread might find interesting. The subject for this year's BBC Reith Lectures is the interplay between the law and the courts; and politics and the legislature. They are being given by the retired UK supreme court judge Jonathan Sumption, and the little I caught of the fourth lecture today suggests that he does have some nuanced and well argued points of view, though I've not heard enough to draw my conclusions.

It's available via the BBC World Service so everyone should be able to listen to it if they so wish - I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has any thoughts on his chosen subject.

He seems like an interesting guy, although maybe a little too "small c" conservative for my taste, and not open to political reform and innovation as I would like (although I only listened to part of one lecture). Is there any specific thing about his lectures that you want us to discuss?

We all are going waaaay far from the topic. But we're being polite and that's good.

Uh, I've read that Germany has some sort of Geographical potential to be a superpower, how true is that.

No, Germany really doesn't have what it takes to be a full-blown superpower.

Neither do we want to be one.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Jun 21st 2019 at 5:33:27 PM

No European countries (Russia excepted, if we consider it that) has currently the means to be a superpower. Even France and the UK are restricted to some of their ancient dominion. The best we can hope is to stay relevant, if possible through the UE.

Honestly, I highly doubt any European country will ever have the means to be a superpower. Their resources and population simply aren't high enough to sustain such an endeavor.

Of course, that's where the European Union comes in. Collectively Europe can be a superpower even if individual states are not.

The era of "Superpowers" is probably over. "Great Powers" on the other hand...

A multi-polar world of Great Powers is more likely, nowadays (at least, that seems to be the óngoing prediction made by folks such as Fareed Zakaria).

This is a good or bad thing

Regarding the Sino-American relations, I'm worried about how the "Western Democracies" could face against a stronger China. Especially in the era where everyone's military strategy seem to be "Beat me and I will call USA!!"

I'm quoting a line from a random online poster that really resonates with me (IMO). (Bolded part is what I'm more interesed)

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jun 23rd 2019 at 6:36:12 AM

That's a reasonable fear, but on the bright side, as a result of Brexit the European Union has become increasingly popular (or leaving it has become more unpopular) and if there's sufficient reform it could absolutely act as a counterbalance to a rising China.

But yes, it would be nice if is the US could get over the persistent anti-intellectualism that infects the dominant Right side of the political spectrum.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jun 23rd 2019 at 5:44:56 AM

The irony of a relatively benevolent EU against a bitter China is so high.

I know that Third Worldism is just Ethnonationalism/ Fascism for the Global South, but damn that it hurts.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jun 23rd 2019 at 8:03:29 AM

They forget that engineers tend to lean right.

And Chinese scientists only get love so long as they tout the party line, same as anyone else in China.

Random online posters are not always reliable. And yes, I am aware of the hypocrisy.

Edited by M84 on Jun 23rd 2019 at 9:03:54 PM

Said this, I'm still worried about the Chinese rise. I agree that it likely is a timebomb, they will rise...and then fall, hard. The issue is how much and if the CCP is taking measures to deal with it.

Like, Xi is certainly doing his best to rise nationalistic feelings. Which is a clever strategy for if/when bad things happen.

India is a better likely future superpower, thought we in the Western World talk less about them.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jun 23rd 2019 at 8:47:18 AM

Nationalism isn't a particularly clever strategy. Every tinpot dictator has used it.

As for China's rise...the problem with it is the same problem that happened with the Great Leap Forward: it's based more on satiating the pride of China's leaders than it is about actually taking care of the Chinese people.

As for India...it has its own problems. They have to deal with terrible air quality. China has also been making moves against them. And of course there's the fact their next door neighbor Pakistan hates the shit out of them.

Edited by M84 on Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:29:04 PM

To be completely honest, as a French, I'm particularily worried about Russia. China is ruthless, America is unpredictable, but Russia (or at least those who currently rules it) is petty. Considering it's recent policy, I think it completely plausible they could provoke a war in the Baltic, the Caucasus or Ukraine just to gain "macho" points and stick it to the west. And that without mentionning it's support for every far-right group Europe can currently create (including, ironically, far right groups that are opposed to each other).

I'm certainly biased, but the obviousness of Russian propaganda on the francophonic web made me frankly wary of the country.

Is a valid fear, the Russian goverment will drag the entire world with them rather than admit defeat.

Fortunately, none of these cultural patterns are new (American anti intellectualism, Chinese nationalism or Russian interventionism). What is new is the end of US economic hegemony. As a direct result of the loss of our global preeminence, globalization has hit certain sectors of our society particularly hard, and as a result of that we are going through one of our periodic episodes of isolationism and xenophobia. We will work it out, we always have.

I feel the need to point out that Whig history is not correct.

Things have "worked out" because they can work out not because they must, the future is mutable and there's no reason that tolerance, democracy, humanism, liberalism, egalitarianism, or any other values we presumably/likely value must survive.

Victory is possible but so is defeat, if we don't do what's necessary then Republicans seizing control is a possibility. And once they have the opportunity to kill our democracy they will take it.

I'm not being defeatist, we can win, and we must win. But progress is never inevitable and that has to be kept in mind.

Whig history takes an optimistically determinist route, when progressive values are achievable but only because people paid for attaining and maintaining them with blood, sweat, and tears. It's a thing you have to fight for rather than wait for to happen, especially since it's been demonstrated that many societies in the past had more progressive views at times.

I've wondering about how "Progressive" (and "Conservative") will be in the future. Or if Conservativism will be just forgotten given that our Modern Age has being, basically, a defeat after defeat for Conservatives.

Sure, you can talk about the modern Far Right surge but...they pretty much are widely disliked on popular spaces, the question is less "They will fail?" and more "How much they will do before failing?"

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jun 25th 2019 at 12:31:01 PM

Conservatism will be a moderate preference for "whatever came before", which depending on how the situation goes, may be increased leftism. After all conservatism in the Soviet bloc referred to the Marxist hardliners who were opposed to reforms to make the economy more liberal aka capitalist and thus what many would consider rightwing.