A procrastination in of itself
Horror stories will always exist, without solid data i wouldn't assume that they’re in any way representative of the overall experience.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
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True. I wish there was some way of obtaining that data. I've also been hearing of people who know an autistic person personally and are more understanding. But again, how common is that as well?
I would love to see a study that tried to get some idea as to how common understanding of autism actually is, how many individuals personally know an autistic, can name the symptoms of autism, etc.
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Who Am I?
Humans in general are very sensitive to subtle nuances in emotional expressions. Apparently people rely on the expressions of others to achieve a degree of empathy between them—that is, they can "feel" what the other person is feeling by simulating what that facial expression or vocal tone would be like were they the ones using it. Being unable to read the expression of the other person therefore represents a failure of empathy—not by the autistic person, but by the neurotypical person talking to them. Just my speculation.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
a collection of small trees
There's actually the term double empathy problem
to describe the idea that both autistics and allistics (or more generally, neurotypicals and anyone with a brain difference) don't understand each other.
According to the theory of the ‘double empathy problem’, these issues are not due to autistic cognition alone, but a breakdown in reciprocity and mutual understanding that can happen between people with very differing ways of experiencing the world.
Edited by BonsaiForest on Nov 9th 2020 at 8:08:00 AM
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Lost in Space
It's not wrong. I have a mental image of myself as being very understanding and willing to accept anyone's disability or neurodivergence (not saying autism is a disability, just being inclusive). However, I do stereotype based on experience. For example, if I find that a troper who shows up in Edit Banned has difficulty grasping the cooperative nature of TV Tropes, I start anticipating the "autism card".
I don't like that I do this, but it's true. Of course, there are many other reasons why someone may get suspended, so it's not like we go to autism as a first explanation. It's more like an "okay, here we go again", a bracing for the ensuing conversation.
Some of our most pernicious and difficult ban evaders are severely autistic, or at least have claimed to be.
Of course, many of our most productive contributors are also on the spectrum. It's clearly not a case of "autistic = bad troper".
Edited by Fighteer on Nov 9th 2020 at 9:03:22 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
A procrastination in of itself
Yeah I think there simply is something about the site that draws in autistic people/people claiming to be autistic.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Who Am I?
Yeah, that's a very interesting article. Their account, however, is still incomplete until they examine the effects of unequal numbers of each type of person in a typical social setting. Average people learn to communicate by interacting with each other over the course of childhood—the techniques they end up using (even if pre-conscious) will naturally reinforce each other. I would expect that the brain development of most of the children in a school setting would interact—that is, developments in one child or set of children will eventually be reflected in others, as a natural consequence of meeting the challenge of interacting with these children. People with autism would be left out of this process.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
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I keep seeing articles show up about scientists discovering - or genetically modifying - genes related to autism in humans that also show up in animals and produce seemingly similar symptoms.
In this case, it's fish! Specifically, they look at genetic mutations associated with Fragile X syndrome and autism. What do those genetic mutations do in fish, and what might that mean for humans?
"Loud noises often cause sensory overload and anxiety in people with autism and Fragile X syndrome - sensitivity to sound is common to both conditions," Dr Constantin said.
I understand that genes associated with autism don't have identical effects in other animal species as compared to humans (indeed, sometimes the effects they have are pretty bizarre and have no direct human analog, such as mice with an MBD1 mutation whose mothers ignore their squeaks). But this is still interesting information, I think, and I do have a fascination with the effects that genes associated with autism in humans have on various animals.
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Article on an 18-year-old with autism who runs an online support group for other autistics, wrote a book about autism in girls, and things like that.
Castellon always sensed she was different from other children. “I was an old soul as a kid, I had no patience for make-believe and playing,” she recalls.
I actually did a lot of daydreaming as a kid! I just did it by myself. I didn't play with the other kids.
“It’s a spectrum and there is a real range,” she says. “It is time to take apart these misconceptions because it prevents diagnosis. There are autistic people who excel in art or history.”
I once heard of an autistic person who missed a chance at diagnosis in childhood because he scored high on an IQ test. Back then, apparently, autism wasn't diagnosed in individuals with high IQ scores. (Since then, I've been hearing about how in more modern IQ tests, autistic people tend to have a gap of ~30 points or much higher between verbal and performance IQ scores, which might actually be a possible hint for finding the condition. I personally know someone who says she has a similar gap and has had it during the two times - as a teenager and as an adult - that she took an "official" IQ test.)
Not only is female representation lacking but autistic characters are commonly played by neurotypical actors (someone not on the autistic spectrum), such as Keir Gilchrist who plays Sam Gardner in the Netflix series, Atypical.
“This happens a lot,” says Castellon. “Even when it comes to telling our own stories, we are not included in the narrative”.
We need autistic writers in my opinion. Autistic actors are rare but we're seeing more of them. The autism support group in Atypical that was added to season two consists entirely of autistic actors. An autistic actor plays the female protagonist in the show Everything's Gonna Be Okay.
Looks like society as a whole needs to learn that disability and intelligence can both exist in the same person, or that possibly, the disability can cause the intelligence! 60% of entrepreneurs are dyslexic?! I wonder how that was proven.
Edited by BonsaiForest on Nov 11th 2020 at 8:30:33 AM
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I really don't like suddenly putting up yet another article so soon, but there's an article about autistic people in prison, and... yeah, it's bleak. I mentioned a different article on the subject (that article was about intellectual disabilities rather than autism, though the two can co-occur) on a Discord server, and someone said that in prison, social skills matter more than anything else, and if you don't have them, you're basically screwed.
Autism itself is not associated with crime, but it is linked to factors, such as unemployment and homelessness, that research shows increase a person’s chances of entering the criminal justice system, often repeatedly.
Edited by BonsaiForest on Nov 12th 2020 at 10:24:33 AM
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I caught this quote on a book review:
This isn't the first time I saw a parent who has an autistic child mention that they now see the signs in other children whose parents seem clueless. Damn, that's gotta suck - to have a good idea what the problem really is and be unable to do anything about it.
A lot of teachers and other authority figures have no clue what autism is actually like, and we get stuff like "quiet hands" (force yourself to stop stimming and pay attention, even though stimming makes it easier to pay attention as many autistics have reported) and forced eye contact (which has been reported by many autistics to make it harder to pay attention and focus on the conversation). I actually once saw a poster for special needs teachers intended for kids, that said, "If I am stimming I am not listening." Whoever wrote that knows the term "stimming" but doesn't know how it works. It had me livid, and in the comments of the website that sold it, an autistic person was criticizing the message of the poster.
I dunno, I just felt like bringing this up. I was punished as a child for having inappropriate laughter, and the punishments did nothing more than make me terrified I would start laughing and be punished for something I had no control over. Dumbasses thought that punishing me for something I literally couldn't control would magically make it go away. You simply can't punish a symptom.
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Lost in Space
Not that it's the same thing, but I am really sensitive to ADHD in children after going through it with my son.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
a collection of small trees
I believe it, totally. I've noticed that people who either heavily deal with, or have, a certain condition, sometimes claim to be very good at spotting it in others.
Meanwhile, autistic people are joining politics. On both sides of the political spectrum.
By contrast, Benham, a Democrat, was openly autistic when she announced her run for office last year, and she made it a central part of her persona as a candidate.
I'm helping!
I've definitely spotted more people who I think might be unknowingly autistic/ADHD/trans/plural than people who might unknowingly be one of the many things I'm not.
I guess you think about it more when it's a thing you are.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
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Autistic people on TikTok are trying to spread the word about their condition works. Great use of that platform! (This YouTube video is a compilation of such videos.)
Edited by BonsaiForest on Nov 21st 2020 at 2:07:45 PM
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I like how most of them are women. Very underrepresented group.
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Yup. I agree.
Meanwhile, there's an article about a movie about an autistic person that is being criticized for its portrayal and its lack of input from the actual autistic community.
Sia’s upcoming film Music is just another example in a long history of autistic people not being centered in stories about autism.
I showed this article to others, and one person said that right now, nondisabled actors can audition for any role, while disabled actors can pretty much get no roles (GLAAD found that 95% of disabled roles are played by nondisabled actors), so there's still a huge lack of opportunities for disabled actors.
Edited by BonsaiForest on Nov 22nd 2020 at 11:18:17 AM
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Figure of Hourai
"No matter how good an actor is, they'll never know what it's like to [insert thing here]" is one of those statements that feels like it misses the entire concept of acting in the first place.
Though I don't see the appeal of movies like this either.
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Oh, bother.
It doesn't help that the movie mostly consulted Autism Speaks. Or that when an autistic actor called out Sia for not even trying to hire an autistic actor, Sia replied with "Maybe you're just a bad actor".
Disgusted, but not surprised
Who Am I?
The actor doesn't necessarily have to be the type of person being portrayed, because that would imply that an actor with autism couldn't portray any other type of person, and that wouldn't be fair to autistic actors. But the story absolutely should be informed by the experiences of autistic people, typically when the script is being written and the kind of coaching the neurotypical actors receive.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
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"Why autism training for police isn't enough"
For example, recruits at the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department in California are required to complete 15 hours of autism training, plus an additional 4 hours once they’re hired. But elsewhere, autism training might be boiled down to a 13-minute video or slideshow. In some places, autism experts run the training; in others it falls to a local parent or officer with no credentials.
And a scary story:
When Onaiwu tried to answer the officer’s questions, he mistook her tendency to repeat him — a common autism trait called echolalia — for mockery. And matters only got worse when he spotted a metallic ‘stim’ toy, which Onaiwu carries around with her everywhere. Some autistic people use these toys to help ease anxiety or repetitive behaviors. The officer immediately became stern and ordered Onaiwu to get out of the car — while her young daughter, who is also autistic, watched from the back seat.
Edited by BonsaiForest on Nov 26th 2020 at 7:15:10 AM
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I shared this article with some people, and someone told me about a positive experience they had with the police, due to the police's autism training:
Last month I got detained (but not arrested) by the police which were looking for a criminal who resembled me. It was an evening that turned into night so I had my earphones on, so I wanted to stop my Walkman in my pocket but the cops told me to keep away from my pocket (because the perp had a gun) so I was really confused while one of the cops pointed his gun at me (he told me he was ready to fire), and the entire detainment (with handcuffing and all) happened as I had one headphone in my ear blaring music distracting me the whole time (and embarrassing me, because it happened to be rebellious music), so I took a lot of time answering their question because I couldn't concentrate.
However at least one of them had autism training so she understood and defused most of the tension after asking me if I was autistic. Good thing I took the time to remove one of the headphones or I wouldn't have understood their words at all...
Edited by BonsaiForest on Nov 27th 2020 at 12:27:44 PM
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An Autistic Man Is Killed, Exposing Israel’s Festering Police Brutality Problem. This article has far less to do with autism than with police brutality in Israel, which seems to be aimed more at minorities than anyone else.
But I'll quote the portions that involve autism:
There were frequent role-playing exercises, sometimes with real officers from a nearby police post playing themselves: How to say hello. How to present an ID. How to not be afraid.
Iyad al-Hallaq, a 31-year-old with autism, was a star pupil. But early on a Saturday, those lessons failed him. When police officers called out to him along the ancient Via Dolorosa, he took flight. He was quickly cornered, and a rookie officer, apparently sensing a threat, shot and killed him.
Mr. al-Hallaq was unarmed, those who knew him called him harmless, and witnesses said his teacher had shouted at the officers that he was disabled.
“These are the moments that we, as professionals, are waiting for,” said the principal, Issam Jammal.
His teachers were helping Mr. al-Hallaq search for a paying job. His parents had bought him an apartment and were working on finding him a wife.
“He would say, ‘Mama, marry me off,’” said his mother, Rana al-Hallaq.
Mr. al-Hallaq liked to be the first one at school and to retrieve the morning’s deliveries of warm pita. At around 6 a.m. on May 30, he was passing through the Lions Gate, one of the passageways through the Old City’s ancient walls, when officers called to him.
He ran, prosecutors said.
Two border police officers, alerted to a possible attacker, gave chase: a 19-year-old rookie and a 21-year-old commander nearing the end of his service.
Mr. al-Hallaq ran about 100 yards toward his school, just around the corner. The older officer fired at his legs but missed.
Mr. al-Hallaq turned into a storage area for city trash collectors. Witnesses said he cowered in a corner, his back against a wall.
His teacher, seeing the confrontation unfold, said she yelled, in Hebrew, that Mr. al-Hallaq was disabled.
The rookie officer told investigators he believed Mr. al-Hallaq was about to pull a weapon. He fired once. After his commander told him to cease firing, prosecutors say, the officer fired again. Israeli law prohibits his name from being published while the case remains under investigation.
Sorry for the large quotes, but it's a New York Times article, so there's a paywall, and these two quotes comprise most of the autism-specific content in the article.
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Having read plenty of articles about autism-associated genes in animals, especially mice (since they are tested on the most), I wondered if there were any YouTube videos that actually showed mice with genes that are associated with autism in humans. I hoped to see visually what the difference might be in their behavior. Here's some of what I found.
A mouse that buries marbles more obsessively than typical mice do, due to a genetic mutation associated with Fragile X Syndrome.
And I found a video on a mouse with a mutation in the gene MECP2, which is linked to Rett Syndrome. Mice with such a mutation have a hard time learning things.
Other videos were more along the lines of discussions rather than actual footage of the mice, which disappointed me.
Edited by BonsaiForest on Dec 10th 2020 at 12:24:40 PM
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I agree that he should learn how to explain his condition, and learn to understand how it affects him.
I'm concerned about people not believing the autistic person has autism, and not believing their symptoms are real. I've heard maaaany horror stories about autistic people not being believed when they explain their condition to others.
I don't know what the solution to that is, but I imagine it requires allies. We can explain our condition and symptoms - but if others don't believe us, then something else is needed also.
Edited by BonsaiForest on Nov 8th 2020 at 2:28:56 PM
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