and

As much as the succor is not undesired, I must put in that Sparkles didn't actually think that "Cadenza" was malevolent from the start.

Let's converse about that very moment.

1. When Sparkles eavesdrops on "Cadenza", she and Shining Armor are quarreling about an ornament that is sentimental to Shining Armor which Cadenza wants discarded.

2. When Shining Armor tries to keep it, he starts to get a headache that looks suspiciously as though he's being mind controlled and he's starting to repel it.

3. "Cadenza" casts a green spell that buggers with his eyes.

4. Sparkles gasps to herself that "Cadenza" is more then churlish- she's malevolent- and flees.

The problem is that Sparkles didn't actually know what happened. She presumes that the spell that buggered with Shining Armor's eyes debilitates him but all it takes is a few seconds of explanation from Shining Armor for that presumption to be ripped to shreds to her. She didn't actually know what happened.

Sparkles also had an enmity with "Cadenza" before she saw the spell, thinking that "Cadenza" doesn't deserve Shining Armor before she saw that and the basis for that is when "Cadenza" had been snippy and churlish as had been mentioned.

Sparkles was right but the way she became right is the problem. It does not actually have anything to do with the original reasons for her enmity or what she actually thinks "Cadenza" is.

She happened to be right even when her reasoning is flawed. She did not do anything to deserve to be right. That is the problem.

Also, in the two-parter, Sparkles's arms are often wonky and stretched. It's bizarre.

Edited by fredhot16 on Nov 20th 2018 at 9:00:42 AM

So out of curiosity I rewatched ACW part 1 so I could have a more informed discussion, since it's been a long time since I watched it.

Here is what Twilight sees and her reactions, in chronological order

• Cadance doesn't recognize their old dance and completely ignores Twilight, possibly not even knowing who she is.
• Cadance does angry eyebrows at Twilight while SA can't see
• Cadance asks AJ to call her Princess Mi Amore Cadenza instead of Princess
• Twilight rolls her eyes
• Cadance pretends to like the food then throws it away while AJ isn't looking
• Twilight asks AJ if she saw what just happened but AJ ignores her
• Twilight complains to Rarity about Cadence's behavior and says that she has changed.
• Cadence requests changes to Rarity's dresses. When her bridesmaids start praising the dresses, Cadence glares at them.
• Twilight says "Gee, maybe her name should be Princess Demandypants"
• Cadence reacts unfavorably to Pinkie's party preparations.
• Twilight greets her friends with "Bet I can guess what you're all thinking. Cadence is the absolute worst bride to be ever"
• Twilight's friends ignore or justify Cadence's behavior. Twilight says that Cadence is an awful pony who doesn't deserve to know Shining Armor and that there shouldn't even be a wedding.
• Twilight meets SA and tells him that she think's he's making a mistake.
• Twilight witnesses Cadence cast a mind control spell on SA. She says "Cadence isn't just unpleasant and rude, she's downright evil!"

So overall, I think the only point where she was really unjustified was the table scene, and it felt to me more like she got carried away. It is notable that while Twilight thinks that Cadence is a rude, pretentious asshole, she doesn't actually call her evil until after she witnesses the mind control spell.

Edit: Looks like I got ninja'd while rewatching the episode and writing up this post.

The problem is that Sparkles didn't actually know what happened. She presumes that the spell that buggered with Shining Armor's eyes debilitates him but all it takes is a few seconds of explanation from Shining Armor for that presumption to be ripped to shreds to her. She didn't actually know what happened.

Based on what Twilight witnessed, it was pretty clear that something untoward was going on, SA's latter excuse notwithstanding. In the scene, Cadence and Shining Armor get into an argument and SA stands up to Cadence. She literally says "are you disagreeing with me" and SA says "I guess I am". Then Cadence casts a spell on him, his eyes go all swirly, and suddenly his disagreement is forgotten. SA also appears to be glaring at Cadence after he gets the "headache". Though to be fair, Twilight ran away immediately, so she didn't know for sure that SA didn't resume the argument afterwards or something.

The "headache cure" excuse doesn't explain SA's sudden personality change, which makes sense, since Twilight didn't mention witnessing that part and hence SA didn't know to deny it.

Edited by storyyeller on Nov 20th 2018 at 1:00:31 PM

Y'know, the Discord Bad Future from "Cutie Re-Mark" raises some questions in that brief bit we see of Luna and Celestia being terrorized by him.

Luna's there, which means somepony had to attune with the Elements of Harmony sufficiently to rainbow lobotomize her during the Summer Sun Festival. If the Elements, the Sisters, and a set of ponies capable of wielding the Elements to their full capacity are all in play, why can't they stop Discord?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 21st 2018 at 7:51:29 AM

Post of the Day #2341

Posted by Moe Dantes on Sat, 10th Mar '12 12:25:13 PM - Post #120757 in the old thread

Probably because Discord got to them the same way he got to the Mane 6 in ROH, but unlike ROH, Princess Celestia wasn't able to snap them out of it.

Maybe Celestia managed to persuade Nightmare Moon to step down on her own. It was probably a long shot, which is why she relied on the Mane 6 in the main timeline.

Post of the Day #2342

Posted by Bluespade on Mon, 8th Oct '12 6:35:13 PM - Post #291929 in the old thread

I know lots of people weren't a fan of Mud.

Honestly though? I could've watched at least half an episode of Maud and Mud flirtatiously bickering with one another. That whole exchange was adorable.

I liked Mudbriar. Pedantry aside, he isn't really all that different from Maud — and I adore Maud.

Plus, their particular brand of flirting was pretty cute.

I liked Mudbriar and the story that introduced him; I see a bit of myself in him, particularly because we both have a tendency to begin sentences with "Technically..." One funny thing about his name, though, is because I'm a big fan of Pokémon, I keep wanting to call him Mudbray.

Edited by Rainbow on Nov 22nd 2018 at 4:02:45 AM

I found Mudbriar to be conceptually lazy, but entertaining to have around. He's just the right level of obnoxious to suit his function in the story. Easy to dislike right off the bat, but that's fine because you're supposed to dislike him right off the bat.

I think it might be his voice that makes him feel more annoying than Maud. Or maybe it's just the humor.

From what I saw, they didn't actually stop disagreeing. After Shining gets his "headache", he and "Cadenza" start conversing about his headache. Here is what is said.

Princess Cadance: Oh, dear. Are you getting another one of your headaches?

Shining Armor: Gyah!

Princess Cadance: Feeling better?

Shining Armor: [grunts] Mm-hmm.

It's not so much that they stop disagreeing but that they start conversing about his headache when he gets one and Sparkles leaves before she can hear any more.

When Sparkles does go off blazing to "Cadenza", all she says seems denotative that Sparkles thought it debilitates him rather then it being mind control though that may be my way of seeing it as all she actually says is "and if that wasn't enough, I saw her put a spell on my brother that made his eyes go all [bells jangling]!"

She does take the explanation of it being a headache cure rather quickly.

That is another problem with Sparkles drunkenly stumbling into rightness: her companions were put in the wrong even when they weren't actually wrong. They shrug off "Cadenza's" churlishness, not taking it as much as Sparkles does, but they weren't unreasonable. Pinkamena's ideas were childish and Fluttershy's bird was off-key. As for the rest, they merely brush it off as nerves. They don't take "Cadenza's" churlishness the same way Sparkles does: as denotative that "Cadenza" shouldn't be with Shining Armor. Her churlishness is seen as merely stress and nerves and not denotative of her character.

They also suggest, and this is vital, that Sparkles is so irate because she's being possessive of Shining Armor. They're right. It is evident that Sparkles has an ulterior motive for her enmity with "Cadenza": if Shining Armor and "Cadenza" get hitched, Sparkles and Shining Armor might not be as close as they were. It's not about "Cadenza" or even really about Shining Armor but about Sparkles.

This ulterior motive does not ever come back after "Cadenza" banishes Sparkles to the actual Cadenza. Sparkle's possessiveness of Shining Armor is not ever conversed about again.

That's what happens when a character drunkenly stumbles into rightness: the characters that did not go with them become wrong even when they're actually not unreasonable or even wrong and the ulterior motives of the character that drunkenly stumbled into rightness is not ever conversed about again even when it's actually quite vital to that character's enmity.

Post of the Day #2343

Posted by Calnos on Sun, 8th Dec '13 10:14:47 PM - Post #26936 in the new thread

If anything, Mudbriar sort of reminds me of Sheldon Cooper; he has an obnoxious voice and personality, is tall and thin, and has a tendency to correct everyone he speaks to.

Finally got to watch the MLP movie. It's not anything super special, but I enjoyed it and was pleasently surprised by how much I liked it. Although I do agree that Storm King was pretty lackluster and would have benefited from more screen time.

IIRC, the Storm King was pretty funny. Though I think he came off as a bit of a Discord knockoff.

My favorite thing about the Storm King is his complete and utter disgust at being a villain for My Little Pony instead of something cool and masculine like G.I. Joe or Transformers or something.

The fact that he's a total poser with no actual power before Tempest comes along is also interesting to me on both a Doylist and Watsonian level. His entire character motivation in the film is that he's been wanking off about being The Storm King but has no ability to actually produce a storm. It's Tempest's job to figure out a way to put some actual substance behind the Storm King's empty blustering.

Even his army are aesthetically intimidating but fold almost effortlessly as soon as anyone starts punching back. He's all flash.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 23rd 2018 at 7:43:37 AM

Of course, he's more focused on merchandise and image than actually doing anything. He's a bully.

I heard he's cooler in the comic book spinoff.

Post of the Day #2344

Posted by darkabomination on Wed, 25th Sep '13 4:56:47 PM - Post #3516 in the new thread

I commissioned an artist to draw a Cheerilight picture for JT. He's quite fond of that pairing, hence why it was a running gag in A Delicate Balance that ponies kept saying they thought Twilight would have hooked up with Cheerilee instead of AJ.

In other news, I finally got around to watching Deadpool 2, and it contains an MLP reference. Deadpool calls NSTW's pink haired girlfriend "Pinkie Pie from My Little Pony".

That is delightfully meta. Deadpool would bring up Pinkie specifically if he was going to namedrop one of them! He fought her in Death Battle!

It ended in both combatants deciding to screw the rules and become BFFs instead, much to the hosts' frustration.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 25th 2018 at 7:02:36 AM

Post of the Day #2345

Posted by storyyeller on Mon, 28th Nov '11 2:27:41 PM - Post #46158 in the old thread