The Psychology Thread

Talk about experiments, mental diseases, medications, researches, and other interesting things about human minds and behaviors.

I think I've seen at least few tropers who had something to do with psychology so I figured this would be useful to some degree.

Currently I am freshman who is majoring in Psychology (and English), and so far I like what I am learning (Psy 101).

One of the things about psychology that surprised and disappointed me the most is that it isn't more about couch and talk but more of a lot of research. Well, I certainly hope that I don't have to do a whole lot of math. I'd probably have to do some statistics, though. Hurrr....

edited 25th Mar '13 11:37:41 AM by dRoy

I have a Ph.D. in Psychology, although I havnt kept up with the latest research, I'd be glad to help address any questions or issues you want to discuss.

I am currently taking a course in Abnormal Psychology, so that I can understand what sorts of bizarre, abnormal psychologies might come into play in as far as my dysfunctional family.

As you can see by my troper page, I am not a normal person myself either, so the class will probably help me understand what happened and why.

And so, I have a question: given what I am, is it set in stone that I will become violent, or become obsessed with any woman I find myself liking?

edited 24th Mar '13 5:43:43 PM by NickTheSwing

Awesome, always good to have professionals.

I am not sure it isn't as simple as that, but eh...

You know, taking Psy 101, I can't help but feeling that sizable portion of the students will finish that class with delusion of having complete understanding on human mind, which they can use to read and manipulate people around them.

edited 24th Mar '13 8:56:47 PM by dRoy

You have to be aware of "Interns Syndrome"(I was a psychology major for a while, though now it's a minor for me).

Interns Syndrome is the idea that when you start taking Psych classes, you begin to try and diagnose yourself. It's like when people go on Web MD when they have the common cold and go "OH MY GOD THESE ARE SYMPTOMS OF FULL BLOWN AIDS!" and freak out. Don't read too much into it.

@Nick: Not if you don't want to. As long as you're aware of that psychological history of your family, you can look out for it and be just fine. You can't be forced into anything you are mentally aware of. My dad was a passionate and bipolar man who never felt happy in his life when things were going well, and was absolutely miserable when there wasn't a problem to solve or chaos in his life to the point of excessive self-sabotage, which eventually led to his suicide.

Have I worried about becoming that way? Yeah. But all I do is take a step back and do a bit more introspection from time to time on that basis. And when things are going well, I make sure to enjoy it, and just go to the beach to watch the ocean and take a deep breath, and enjoy my success. If you know where possible threats loom, don't sweat it, just watch out for them and know that you have even less of an excuse to let self-fulfilling prophecies come into play.

You were a psychology minor? That's neat. I wanted to take a minor too, but my university doesn't offer it as one, what with it being only 10 courses so my advisor told me to just major it.

My dad was a passionate and bipolar man who never felt happy in his life when things were going well, and was absolutely miserable when there wasn't a problem to solve or chaos in his life

Sounds like a very interesting ma-

to the point of excessive self-sabotage, which eventually led to his suicide.

-and that's just tragic. D:

edited 24th Mar '13 9:01:58 PM by dRoy

It is what it is, you're pretty much doomed to some sort of sad end or another if you can never look upon your works and feel content once in a while. I know I've felt similar to him from time to time, I'm at my best when there's some sort of personal crisis going on. I get into my most productive modes when I'm all "Oh shit I overspent this paycheck and have to stretch 30 dollars to last me a week. I've got a half tank of gas, 4 days of work lined up, and drill on the weekend." That's one reason that despite my rivalry and professional dislike of firefighters, I think I have the perfect frame of mind for it. Hang out at the station, work out, play games, cook, and then as soon as the alarm goes off, it's game time crisis mode.

But when there isn't anything really going wrong, I do find that I grow massively restless. I think of it like a mental battlefield, making plans, juking and flanking and finding routes of attack for whatever problems life is throwing at me. When the enemy quits the field and I've won, I get really antsy and irresponsible. But I know that, so knowing that, I put effort into dealing with it. I've been that way since I was a kid, always waiting till the last minute and skimming by expending as few resources or as little effort as possible in life. Now I realize that when things are going good and life doesn't feel like one big struggle, that I need to just go lay down on the beach and take a nap for a while, because life will always throw problems at you, and you should spend your problem-free time taking it easy so you aren't mentally exhausted when the next one comes up.

I'm sure a lot of other people are the same way, I think it just comes down to having a restless mind. Some people just need to constantly find new ways to challenge themselves or they just get miserable.

edited 24th Mar '13 9:28:41 PM by Barkey

...thank you. Just...thank you, Barkey.

I was honestly, really worried that I'd end up like those guys I see on Investigation Discovery.

Speaking of which, given you guys have studied psychology, what is your opinion of the depiction of certain psychological disorders on there?

As a person with a bipolar aunt, I've heard a lot of sad stories about her time growing up.

My family has a lot of bizarre psychology in its branches. My grandmother is a bipolar of some sort, combined with avoidant personality, I believe. My first aunt is bipolar, another one seems slightly antisocial. My uncle is strange, has had drug problems basically his entire grown up life, and is into and out of prison. My mother has some traits of another bipolar, or even some sort of antisocial in that she never seems to see anything wrong in what she was doing for the previous years, and remorse is hard to see in her. My dad is the other kind of antisocial, disliking social situations except with hand picked "friends" who share his neuroses, or with family, though he seems to be growing more distant and angry with me and my sister simply because we don't take care of the dog the way he wants the dog taken care of.

Together, they made me. I do not know how to classify myself, truly, but my psychologist said I have trouble showing real, lasting emotion, but am a "social chameleon" when I want to be.

edited 24th Mar '13 10:08:53 PM by NickTheSwing

I think that there is a massive epidemic of both self-diagnoses and incorrect professional diagnoses of Aspergers Syndrome and Autism. I think that there should be no such thing as diagnosing someone with "mild" symptoms of either, especially in children and teens, as it becomes an excuse and a self-fulfilling prophecy that limits their potential and self-esteem.

I think it is a serious issue with our youth right now. I totally acknowledge that both issues are completely real things, but I feel that the professional psychological community is trying to turn everyone into a bundle of disorders that make up their behavior, and that almost nobody can just be going through a tough time, or really have any sort of clean bill of mental health. Especially with children. A kid is kind of hyper, he suddenly has ADD. A kid has trouble talking to girls or issues with making friends, he suddenly has aspergers or autism, depending on the circumstances. A kid bullies other kids, and suddenly he has sociopathic tendencies.

I think a good portion of those cases don't need professionals to be involved, it's called kids being kids. Kids are hyper, and they fight, and they can be shy, and they can be cruel, but that's a normal part of childhood. I almost feel like slapping a diagnoses onto a child is like giving both the parent and the child an excuse to just give up on improvement altogether. It's almost like sanctioning their behavior.

Little Charlie bounces off the fucking walls all the time and has trouble staying on task, but that's ok, it's just how he is because he has ADD. The parents don't need to get together with their child to help him work on staying fucking still and focusing on completing his chores and staying on task, because that's just how Charlie is because of his disorder. Lets either let him run wild, or throw medication at him to turn him into a zombie. That's totally the answer.

Then Charlie becomes a teenager, and is filled with all sorts of self-doubt and introspection at "what is wrong with him". When he does certain things that are negative or wrong, but line up with his disability in a way that he can justify to himself, he does nothing to try and fix them. He decides it's not his fault, and absolves himself of responsibility.

See where I'm going with this? It's an issue, it's an epidemic, and it needs to stop. We need to stop giving "mild" or tangential cases of mental issues that may or may not be there some quack diagnoses, because it just becomes an excuse not to perform in many cases.

Now not all cases are like this, there are plenty of real world examples of people with real issues, and I totally admit that.

==BRACE FOR FIRE ACROSS ALL DECKS, FLAK BARRAGE INCOMING==

However, imo, over half of Tropers profess that they have some sort of mental disability or illness. About 50 percent of that half will say they are self-diagnosed, and out of the other 50 percent who say they got a professional diagnoses, I'd say about half of them are lying, or got an incorrect diagnoses.

In my case, I've never really given any considerable fucks about if I'm bipolar or not like my dad. I am who I am, and there are things I need to work on, and I work on those things. Instead of a teenager who thinks or has been told that the reason he isn't good at talking to girls or people in general is because of his "mild autism", the more helpful outlook is "I have trouble talking to girls, and I don't know where to start. I need to talk to someone like a friend or an adult and try to figure out how to work on this."

I just feel like our current youth are into this whole "Look at me and how much I struggle. LOOK AT ME AND LOOK AT HOW UNFORTUNATE AND TORTURED I AM GOD DAMNIT. But it's cool. It's my cross to bear, I deal with it." It's about labels. People want to feel like the odds are against them so they have an excuse for their failings, and we're enabling millions of people to do just that.

I wouldn't worry about that too much, I've been told that too. I can drift from social group to social group, and just about instantly and subconsciously start flexing the traits they find favorable in me and suppressing the traits that would be unfavorable, so every different group of people I know sort of knows a different me. It can be alienating though, for sure. Just something to work on I suppose.

edited 24th Mar '13 11:15:30 PM by Barkey

I read up on abnormal psychology in my spare time. It's fascinating seeing all the myriad ways the human brain can work— and malfunction.

'Course, I kind of have a personal motive for this since I've got my own share of diagnosed neuroses and I'm taking meds for them. I feel like by studying abnormal psychology, I get to understand how I and others like me tick better.

Which is why I was rather hesitant to take medication before. Why would I need to take some quack's snake oil? I wasn't ill. My "Aspergers'", my "OCD" and "depression" were merely the labels affixed to my moral failings by the purveyors of the pernicious poppycock called psychology. It would be solved by a judicious application of willpower and mastery of self, not by coddling and pampering by charlatans: that was for weaklings, for spoiled brats who had silver spoons stuck up their assholes. Not for me.

It didn't work that way. I ended up floundering at my studies and having an OCD-induced breakdown.

And that's why I'm back on the meds.

edited 24th Mar '13 11:32:12 PM by Icarael

The point about labels is part of why I have been unsure as to if there would be any point in me getting a diagnosis for Aspergers. All a diagnosis does is attach a label to certain behaviours. I will want to act the way I want to act whether I have a diagnosis or not, the bad parts of the way I act are still bad even if I have a diagnosis. I can't (or shouldn't be able to) get a diagnosis and then use it as an excuse to not follow social conventions. Now it may serve as an explanation as to why I have trouble following and understanding social conventions, but it shouldn't enable someone to have a free ride. It should just be a tool that they can use to have people understand that they have difficult and thus may take a bit longer to understand, nto an excuse to not try and understand.

^

Exactly, that's the attitude that I consider extremely healthy regarding the whole thing.

Though I am considering a diagnosis as it might mean I get more money from the student loan company. But that's okay right?

edited 25th Mar '13 6:03:59 AM by Silasw

First rule of Abnormal Psychology (and, by extension, psychiatry): applying what you read to yourself and those you know is ill-advised. But, as people will do it, anyway, there is a sub-clause: do it with caution and season liberally with salt. Armchair Psychology is bloody dangerous in the wrong hands. -_- If in doubt, always seek a pro. If in further doubt, seek two.

Second rule of Abnormal Psychology (and, by extension, isometric testing): Abnormal Psychology is only as accurate as the data presented... and, the checklists used: check your sources, triple-check your checklist... and, keep abreast of the literature. Oh... and, keep the Uncertainty Principle in mind. It's not just in Physics where the observed changes behaviour upon being observed (and, depending on who is observing).

Third rule of Abnormal Psychology: Change Over Time. Baselines are the important means of assessment, not spikes or dips within a snapshot period (even acute states should not be taken in isolation when they present periodically). What you see now won't be what you get in fifteen years' time, even though the personality will remain consistent (most likely). Factors are important.

Fourth rule of Abnormal Psychology: statistical analysis can and will happen. Make them your friend, or at least get to know them well... or else fail dismally to understand the core of the subject.

And, I got these rules from the University of Durham's elective subsidiary subject in Abnormal Psychology I did at university as part of my Psychology BSc (unfinished due to illness). I mainly was interesting in lexical processing, though. From the cognitive side, but... hey... as is ever the case in Psychology: you need to see what goes wrong to work out how it goes right in the first place.

edited 25th Mar '13 6:29:16 AM by Euodiachloris

@Barkey - That's certainly a very interesting insight.

As for me, all I am suffering from is a chronic case of laziness.

Silasw's post is pretty much something I agree with. You have to master your demons lest they master you.

Unfortunately, I fail to see how psychology helps with that. If the diagnosis means jack shit and my screw-ups aren't excused or justified by my diagnosis, then what am I on pills for? Are they just very expensive placebos with chemicals in them that will mess me up instead of helping me subjugate my demons?

edited 25th Mar '13 7:12:53 AM by Icarael

Covert subsidy for the drug industry?

I think the idea with drugs is that they enable you to tame your demons. With some demons the help you need is emotional support, others you just need people to be understanding, or occasionally you need (or can benefit from) drugs.

I think another benefit from a diagnosis can be that it helps you to understand what your issues are, it helps you to identify your demons so that you know what you're fighting. Plus it can help people who feel that they can't find anyone to relate to about their issues, as the label gives them a group that they can go to for support/comradeship.

My friend and I were discussing this exact phenomenon on Friday in relation to someone she knows. This person professes to have a mental illness that she doesn't and indulges in unacceptable behaviour on the back of it. My guesstimate was that this behaviour in itself hinted at some underlying psychological issues and Histrionic symptoms.

Personally, it's the misconception of mental illness that this kind of thing creates in the public eye that annoys me. Dealing with mental illness in society requires as much understanding of these illnesses as possible, and this kind of behaviour undermines that. It appears in various media as well, where examples of mental illness are usually so extreme as to become very unrealistic.

I kind of went MIA there for awhile, and I apologize for that, but the real world does distract one from a more satisfying life on the internet. Barkey answered the OP's question better than I would have anyway. Let me just state for the record that I am no kind of professional therapist, and you shouldn't be taking advice you get on the internet too seriously anyway.

Is anything in psychology set in stone? Depends on what you mean. I think it is possible to change almost anything about oneself, with enough commitment and enough time. Altering a personality trait is a little like getting a blackbelt in traditional martial arts- that's a lifetime commitment, and you better be satisfied with incremental change over the course of many years, because that's often what it takes. Self-improvement is not easy, and the more fundamental the aspect of yourself you are trying to improve, the harder it gets. The bottom line is that if you think you are a really terrible person today, you probably will still be one tomorrow too, but maybe not a couple of years from now, if you work really hard at it.

Formal diagnoses are useful, and treatments are often necessary, but Psychology is not auto-mechanics. No one can identify your flaws in black and white and then fix them for you. Medication will, if you are lucky, help give you the capacity to get your s^&t together, but they will not do the work for you (esp. if you stop taking them).

I understand the skepticism toward people who do not seek formal diagnoses for mental illnesses they claim to have, but it's often misplaced. It's not as if getting formally diagnosed as having Aspergers actually does give you an excuse to be anti-social (it doesn't). If someone is acting like a jerk, then they should be called out on it, regardless of what condition they may have. At the same time, the fact that there is presently no effective treatment for many formally recognized disorders (including Aspergers), and that health insurance doesn't always cover mental health treatments, and that many people don't have any insurance at all, and it's reasonable why many people do not bother with getting the diagnosis.

What makes me uncomfortable is that there appears to be some sort of public debate going on between people who are skeptical of all formal psychology, and people who are skeptical of everyone who claims to be victims of a mental disease. Public debates are very good and healthy, but what I worry about is that there are some silent genuine sufferers who may be getting caught in the middle.

What I really fear is that someone may be so anxious about being accused of being fake, or being gullible, that they will choose not to share their questions with others who may be able to help them. If I can express one strong request it would be: please don't let that stop you. Give yourself voice.

That said, do remember what free advice is worth: exactly what you paid for it...

edited 25th Mar '13 11:19:59 AM by DeMarquis

@ Barkey: It just seems like I am an incomplete work, that my lack of emotion is...damaging of my being. But...if emotions make my parents scream and shout at my sister and act in such ways, maybe I am glad I don't have emotions in as much intensity as others do.

Maybe, being a sociopath doesn't automatically make me evil. I think I have a choice.

Already, this thread is doing some good.

PSYCHOLOGY THREAD.

YES.

I AM STUDYING PSYCHOLOGY. I WILL DO PSYCHOLOGY NEXT YEAR AT UNIVERSITY.

Re: Drugs. Drugs are a tool, not a means. I see them as a crutch or in combination with psychotherapy, but never as by themselves. Too many side-effects and issues with them. Therapy does not have any side-effects - and in the case of CBT, the effects last after the therapy (unlike drugs, where withdrawal symptoms occur).

Obviously, I am not knowledgable about psychology, but I do know a fair bit.

On a side note; what annoys me the most is that because I study psychology at school, it means I can diagnose you. Which I am unqualified to do, and its kinda unethical to diagnose people you know. But that's neither here nor there.

Hmmm... about drugs. Psychology is about medicines, too. But, not totally about chemicals. Nor should it ever be. Heck, even Medicine isn't only about the chemicals: physiotherapy, anybody? Healthy diets? Exercise? Psychology has these and other equivalents, too.

The mind and the body are linked <points at the spinal chord and the endocrine system> and often need to be looked after in the same, or similar, holistic ways.

Throwing drugs at a problem when there are other alternatives? Happens in medicine, as well. Unfortunately. As does incorrect diagnosis. <_< And, just as in general medicine, the wrong diagnosis can label you badly and get you into deeper trouble, as people start to see only what they expect to see. (Say, you have Coeliac Disease... but, you get diagnosed with CFS instead, and spend years not knowing about what your dietary needs are as you continue to be assessed as having CFS...)

And, also as in general medicine, self-diagnosis has both positive and negative sides. Take the Coeliac example: if you question your diagnosis, and instead decide you have classic IBS and act accordingly (and bad mouth the doctors right and left), you've still not solved the puzzle of what you have got... even if you do start to improve because you incidentally start a gluten-free diet as part of the IBS treatment regime you found online. And, you won't help IBS sufferers who can't respond to the gluten-free diet in as spectacular a way by banging on about your miracle cure, as they have something other than Coeliac. <shrugs>

Psychology is like this. In fact, it's often worse: diagnosis varies widely, simply because 1) Psychology is still fairly new and 2) the diagnostic criteria are subject to a lot of change. All the time.

edited 25th Mar '13 12:25:39 PM by Euodiachloris

Well, diagnosis itself is subjective. Being a psychologist (either a researcher or a clinician) is basically being the hydrogen in H20 while simultaneously trying to study the H20 molecule itself.

If that analogy works.

Wut? Because a doctor, therapist, psychologist or psychiatrist is a person diagonalising people... that makes them susceptible to the "woods and trees" problem because... people? <confused>

Is that what you're trying to suggest?

I'm currently in university for Psychology.

One thing to keep in mind that something might be a problem in one person, but it's perfectly fine in another. The best example I can think of is sexual orientation. Everyone has their own, but if someone has a healthy sex drive and they suddenly lose it for no apparent reason, there's probably something wrong there. However, if someone never had one to begin with, they're probably fine, it's just a quirk of their own body.

Everyone's psychology is different. I'm imaginative and hopeless at math, but that isn't a disability even though there are people who have no imagination who are amazing at math. There is no generic baseline to look for. However, that said, there are certain things that should always be looked at. If someone is extremely bipolar, they should seek help, if only because both depressive and manic states can be extremely dangerous.

Another element in diagnosis, especially in children, is that the condition needs to persist for a significant period of time. A child can't be diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder unless they have it consistently for six months straight with no breaks. If someone is predisposed towards feeling miserable on rainy days, but they feel fine the rest of the time (admittedly, they might have seasonal affective disorder), they probably don't have anything major.

EDIT: Oh, one thing that is a problem. People going to the wrong kind of doctor. A Psychologist can't prescribe medicine. They look for non-chemical means for solving a problem. A Psychiatrist is the one who prescribes medicine. If you have to go to a brain doctor, try going to both to see what they both say.

edited 25th Mar '13 12:32:33 PM by Zendervai