RWBY General Discussion

After I brought up the issues on removing the potential complaining from the YMMV page on the appropriate thread, jandn2014 said that the more complaining-prone tropes should be looked at first.

Edited by gjjones on Sep 24th 2020 at 3:25:38 PM

I've always felt like Ozpin absolutely knew that Jaune didn't have legitimate transcripts, but allowed him in anyway. Whether it's simply him seeing potential, being sneaky for the occasional immortal's lulz, or related to Tyrian's comment about finding Jaune interesting, I'd imagine Beacon is probably going to catch fake transcripts.

What's always interested me is that Jaune was the only person Ozpin congratulated. Given that we know he personally recruited Ruby, he doesn't even say anything to her. But Jaune gets a 'Well done, young man'. That, right there, has always convinced me Ozpin knew. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the fake transcripts came from him in the first place.

If so, then Jaune was wrong about Pyrrha being the first person to have faith in him... although she appears to have been the first person who ever made him aware that someone had faith in him, which (from the perspective of his self-confidence) is more important.

There is not a chance in Hell Oz didn't know about Jaune's transcripts. The only question is what his angle was.

Perhaps he was wanting to know his next host personally?

to Wyldchyld, Psyga 315 and Fergard Stratoavis, thank you. i'm... a little worried about the anti-fans at times. It's nice to have some sort of reassurance, and i've run into a fair few people who will openly admit to being former members of that crowd with regret, even some really intelligent ones, so i can imagine that it will die down eventually. that said, i don't have the bigger picture experience you all do, so i needed to ask.

I agree the show isn't perfect, but i feel it's worthwhile.

Edited by strange_idea on Sep 24th 2020 at 11:02:02 AM

I agree wholeheartedly.

Some works attract hate for the sake of hate, for some reason; they're works that are considered cool to hate and uncool to like, where people appear to follow the work just to rant about it. Unfortunately, RWBY is one of those works, and has been since its inception.

The show has very real flaws, there's no doubt about that, and there are completely legitimate reasons for why people might not like the show. That doesn't explain the level of vitriol this work attracts, but that's true for all works that fall into this rather weird category.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 25th 2020 at 8:45:34 PM

It's basically just a case of Bandwagon Fallacy. Bunch of smarmy assholes decide to critique it online, then comes Follow the Leader, then suddenly it's "cool" to hate on the series. Even people who don't normally have anything to do with RWBY will make a RWBY video if it gives them views, and some don't even bother to actually research anything. Looking at you adel aka.

To risk starting a discusion here:

"it doesn't make it proper characterization anymore since said characterization is now obsolete. "

That is the thing, IS really obsolte? The idea the show didnt portray sun that way is enterely correct, if anything is that the show didnt show the whole thing for a while and this come as shocking.

With ozpin is not the same because he is a cypher: people think he is shady because other chararter openly said so and in a way HE IS shady, he is just no malicious, I call this the dumblodore: a big good with big secret that the protagonist find out and now have to deal, rose quartz is a good example of this, not surprising she is not percive as this super unlikable bitch.

" it was when she was being extremely self destructive and backing off would have a bad idea." " Again, no he doesn't. He just showed up because he was already involved in the hunt for Roman and thought he was going too" "he went after Blake thinking she was going on a suicide mission against the White Fang after she just flat out bolted during the Fall of Beacon, and went on the boat she took to keep an eye on her" ". Getting Noodles was a bit jerkish, but Neptune did it too, and based on their dialogue, neither were that concerned for the team, thinking they could handle themselves."

You see this is the case: many sun have good reason but there still IS reasons, he think of them and themse to just follow them and everything else be damn, following Blake on a ship is....bad, really bad, there is a reason people back them though sun was a stalker, him thinking RWBY can handle themselves just add that trait because he dosent know them what hell to said they can fight a paladin, so far the show ever bother to make this a point and is not the first time it happen, that dosent invalidate the interpretation.

Can we not bring that up again? I'm kind of mortified that I got that worked up.

Meh, im still pissed about how they treat Adam(and he is dead, so not getting better from that), so dont worry so much.

So, I discovered that even the most reputable sources and trade newspapers can get things wrong. Has that happened before with Rooster Teeth regarding RWBY?

Edited by gjjones on Sep 25th 2020 at 2:40:59 PM

One example is probably when the Advertising Dept shows lots of support for the Lucky Charms ship only for the volume to end with Clover being killed off which slightly stinks of bury your gays. I don't really think it fits that trope but people who truly loved that ship felt that that trope is in effect.

It was in effect though. The writers had to go and say they never intending Lucky Charms/Fair Game to be a ship, just a very close friendship that becomes a Tragic Bromance, it's just the marketing department misread the intentions and added fuel to the fire that was started by Relationship Writing Fumble, the fumble itself started because the animators kept making Clover give Qrow flirtatious winks.

In short, it was a case of miscommunication on three different fronts that ended in that mess.

Double post because of the nature of the topic:
Speaking of Clover BTW... the Volume 8 Trailer may have opened up a whole new can of worms. There's a theory going around that the scene were Ironwood is standing in front of a hospital bed is indeed him standing in front of Clover, just it's not his body, it's him. As in, he's alive.

The idea is that while the wound looked bad, Clover ultimately didn't die, and what was thought to be him dying was just him passing out from blood loss, and Qrow, being emotionally broken and witnessing people die on him before, jumped the gun and assumed he died. They use the fact the Ace-Ops don't look particularly upset during the following shot of them to suggest Clover isn't dead but instead just barely hanging on, and that part of Qrow and Robyn's break out will have them discover this.

I'm of two minds on this.

• On the one hand, it's would be a plus that Clover isn't dead after only a single Volume of screentime, I was a fan of the dynamic he shared with Qrow, it would give the opportunity to explain his past with Robyn, and the fact he even admitted to supporting Qrow's decision to take on Ironwood would make it an interesting idea should he survive, particularly when dealing with the other Ace-Ops and Ironwood.
• On the other though, he was Impaled with Extreme Prejudice and the life did fade from his eyes, which is usually a big sign of death, and the fact Fair Game was such a controversial aspect would likely lead to accusations of his survival being a retcon just to appease the Fair Game fans. It would also stretch the Suspension of Disbelief considering Clover was ran through pretty badly, and his wound was much more severe than what Vernal suffered, and the wound she took ultimately killed her.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Sep 26th 2020 at 9:08:33 AM

Well, it makes sense. After all, the ultimate good fortune is for the good luck charm to be alive, just like how the ultimate misfortune is for the bad luck charm to still be alive.

Maybe the Tinman will give him a cybernetic heart?

A hell of a lot better than The Staff can be used to revive the dead.

Heck with it, try both options and see what we get.

x5 That is exactly the kind 'didn't die' fake-out scenario that undermines both the characters it impacted and the character who is coming back. As much as I understand people being upset with Clover's death, that kind of return isn't going to do either Clover or the show any favours, so I sincerely hope that's just wishful thinking by Clover fans and not what's really happening.

My interpretation of the scene is that we're supposed to think it's Winter who is in the bed, and the camera is viewing Ironwood and the Ace-Ops from her perspective. Having said that, the Ace-Ops' body language is a bit weird for the theory that they're standing over Clover's body. It's more 'here's a puzzle we need to solve' body language than 'our leader's been murdered' body language.

So, while I hope it's not a living Clover who's in the bed, I'm also not certain that Clover's on the other side of the window either (or that it's not just him that's there). I feel like the Ace-Ops' body language is hinting that there is more going on in this scene than the trailer is revealing.

I therefore do think it's right for fans to be suspicious about the trailer's framing of the scene.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 26th 2020 at 5:02:42 PM

You must not read comic books because that kind of thing can be done without undermining anything, so long as it's done well.

Also helps that the circumstances leading up to the potential "death" were dumb as hell and something most people wish hadn't happened or been better written, so I don't think many would be that upset over him being alive if it meant getting to ignore the stupidity that would have led to his death.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Sep 26th 2020 at 12:08:27 PM

I don't very often read comic books, it's true. All the literature and manga I've ever read has left me extremely wary of that kind of scenario because the only times I've seen this type of scenario occur, it has genuinely been a retcon.

Scenarios where a death is set up to intentionally fool the audience in order to create a later reveal that a character is still alive is a different subject entirely. I'm approaching your post from the assumption that the creators did not intend a 'fake-out' death because the scene itself, and the build-up to it, does not strike me as an intentional 'false death' scenario. Given that it ends with Arch-Enemy declarations beween Qrow and Tyrian, and with the reveal that Qrow's hanging onto Clover's bloodied broach, it strikes me as an intentional 'Lost Lenore'-style situation for Qrow's future character development.

Obviously, I could be wrong about this.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 26th 2020 at 5:10:25 PM

Considering the writers outright said Clover wasn't meant to be a love interest to Qrow and we've had numerous cases of the animators doing whatever the fuck they wanted and screwing things up in the process, I wouldn't be surprised if this was just another case of "the animators misinterpreted the scene". At this point it happens so often that it's a legitimate justification as to why something happened.

I presume there's no real reason for the Ace-Ops to be upset. Yes, Clover's dead, but they made no bones about the fact that their relationship is strictly professional. There's still work to be done, and they can't let something like the loss of another to get in the way (especially if Harriet's in charge now, since she's the most likely to push forward no questions asked).

I would prefer that Clover stays dead myself. His loss is significant enough to be felt, and it helps (through the school of hard knocks) Qrow in developing. Now, Rooster Teeth has done its fair share of fake-out deaths (Donut in Red v. Blue died like four times across eight or so seasons), even here (Cinder at Summer Vault) - but Clover is much more expendable than most examples.