Most examples don't show enough context for me to figure out whether they fit the "classical" virtue systems or are "seven virtues".
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
This site layout is incredibly confusing... is this where I respond? Test.
Edit: Guess so.
That is actually kind of my point. The examples list different virtue systems in fiction. Should it be a whole different trope just because the included virtues or the number thereof in a system is different? This strikes me as precisely the kind of detail that is not really relevant to a phenomenon's tropeworthiness.
edited 24th Feb '13 8:49:32 AM by Anbalsilfer
Yes, you picked the right place.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
The Seven Heavenly Virtues is an older trope, I'll admit. There are traditionally exactly seven because they were a counterpart to the Seven Deadly Sins. I admit there are a lot of other virtue systems in media, but shoehorning does not mean a trope is invalid. It means a trope needs to be cleaned up.
The exact list is less standard than the Seven Deadly Sins, but they are mirror tropes. I tweaked the definition a little to make this clearer. It's just like people see the Trope Five-Man Band and seem to think the number doesn't matter.
edited 24th Feb '13 8:54:12 AM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
shimaspawn: I see what you're getting at and I suppose there IS a point in keeping the trope's narrow definition. But if that is the case, then it seems clear that we have a missing supertrope here. As you said, systems of virtue are a commonplace occurrence in media (and quite possibly Older Than Feudalism) and this should be a trope in and of itself. Should I take this argument to YKTTW?
Yeah, that is definitively tropeworthy.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Yep, it's a missing supertrope syndrome. Clean the misuse from this and use that for the start of your YKTTW. This mostly needs a quick scrubbing though.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
I will get on this. Thanks for your advice.
You're welcome. I'll start cleaning up the main page and the wicks so we can get this locked.
edited 24th Feb '13 9:27:36 AM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
The current title is horrible, but that can be fixed. I made some tweaks the definition. We should probably scrub Seven Deadly Sins for this at the same time.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Renamed to "Virtues And Vices". I'll get on migrating examples from Seven Deadly Sins as well.
That's an even worse name. Still needs work.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Coming anywhere close to consensus on a good title seems difficult. I'm definitely not a fan of "taxonomical ethics" and I think that "virtue" definitely needs to be a part of the title. Do you have any other suggestions?
Best if you post input directly in the YKTTW. Others need to take part in the discussion, and I can only post here once per 10 minutes at any rate.
edited 24th Feb '13 11:00:24 AM by Anbalsilfer
This has more or less been resolved now. Can someone lock or otherwise invalidate this topis so as to make the link disappear from the trope page? I can't figure out how.
You need to hit the yellow button over a post and ask.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
This trope appears to either need broadening or have its supertrope identified. The trope appears to be about occurrences of the particular classical "seven heavenly virtues" virtue system in media. However, most of the examples are occurrences of any kind of virtue-ethical system, regardless of the virtues included.
It seems to me that the specific case of "seven heavenly virtues" is too narrow to be tropeworthy, and that the trope thus needs to be explicitly broadened to include all kinds of virtue models. The sheer number of already identified examples attest that a trope about virtue ethics is needed, but it seems inappropriate to have the trope focus on any particular model.
The body of the article also needs to be re-authored to sound less preachy. The first paragraph of the current article goes:
"The Seven Heavenly Virtues are seven basic concepts that will lead your soul to honor. Repeated in various forms throughout the world (and beyond), [...] seven essential personality traits which guide people in morality. UNDENIABLY, these are the basic "rules of behavior" for any true hero, veiled or otherwise."
Seriously? Who wrote this? This is not a description of the trope pattern, it is downright preaching for a certain system of ethics to the exclusion of all others.
The job of reorienting and reauthoring the article is a bit too big for me, so I humbly ask my fellow tropers for assistance in straightening this out.