Complaining: So Beautiful Its A Curse

Done. It's short but then again because it lacks the unnecessary diatribe of the last one. Changing laconic and playing with page as well.

edited 27th Feb '13 8:45:15 PM by captainpat

I know it's not launched but something should be said about the difference between this and Embarrassed Beauty.

Right, we should discuss that in it's ykttw.

edited 1st Mar '13 9:12:26 AM by captainpat

After looking at it, Embarrassed Beauty does seem like it would be covered by So Beautiful, It's a Curse, so I have no problem discarding it.

captainpat and I have been discussing this in the YKTTW for Embarrassed Beauty but I'd like another option on it. How seriously are we taking the word curse? If the character is just shy and modest, her beauty isn't the source of actual problems, and she's not one of those "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful" characters, should she still count as cursed? Getting more praise than she's comfortable with sounds far from being cursed to me.

Don't get focused on the word "Cursed" or try to apply fixed degrees of severity to the world. The trope is simply about a character's beauty causing problems for them. Any unwanted attention resulting in the character being uncomfortable is a problem.

I think the two ideas can be merged for now.

Even if you want to say that all the examples of Embarrassed Beauty fall under So Beautiful, It's a Curse, Embarrassed Beauty can still be launched as a sub-trope. I don't think the matter is settled with three people saying that they're the same thing an two people saying they're different anyway.

The unwanted attention So Beautiful, It's a Curse refers to is Stalker with a Crush, not friends and family admiring her beauty but she's too shy to appreciate it.

I think Stalker with a Crush might be a Sink Hole, it's holdover from the last description. Characters under So Beautiful, It's a Curse usually have unwanted attention coming from more than one person.

That being said there might be room for a subtrope. Not every case of So Beautiful, It's a Curse involves a character being embarrassed by their beauty and the ykttw got a decent amount of examples.

Being embarrassed doesn't necessarily mean it's bad or causing any problems, though.

Embarrassment is a problem, at least in the mind of the person being embarrassed.

No, it's not always a problem, in the mind of the person who's embarrassed.

I think looking at it that narrowly is missing the forest for all the trees. I don't think it's about anything negative, anything negative at all. It's about when the end result is negative.

Right.

edited 4th Mar '13 3:42:49 AM by AnotherDuck

Please don't sidetrack the conversation into what people should or should not do.

We are talking about a descriptive page about fiction, not a prescriptive page for Real Life.

Duck, are you saying that embarrassment is entirely separate from cursed?

No, Duck is right. Being embarrassed by people thinking you're pretty? How is that being "cursed"? The consequences of being overly beautiful should, in my opinion, be greater than mild emotional reaction for this trope to apply.

edited 3rd Mar '13 9:20:04 PM by EditorPallMall

Okay, I count three people saying that we don't have to take the name of the trope literally, that any form of unwanted attention falls under cursed, and four people saying that a curse is a lot stronger than an embarrassment and they're two entirely separate tropes. Should we have a crowner for this?

Is it really a curse? I felt it was a generic problem.

If we count people who're embarrassed when they get attention because of their looks, we can basically add just about any girl who's wearing a short skirt and isn't completely confident about it, or having cleaned up nicely. I think that kind of derails the trope. You don't have to be extremely beautiful to draw looks. Just above average, if even that.

It doesn't necessarily have to be like an actual curse, but it does need to cause problems outside itself. Being embarrassed stays at being embarrassed for the most part. It's not causing any other problems for the character. However, if it keeps the person locked inside for fear of going out, or is otherwise unable to function normally in public, then there's a real problem at hand, as it shapes the life of the person. It needs to be played up, in-story, that it's a serious problem.

edited 4th Mar '13 3:55:49 AM by AnotherDuck

I guess I've been reading this trope as a rather broad supertrope, of which Embarrased Beauty would be a subtrope. However, if people want to make both narrow enough to be seperate subtropes of an as of yet unwritten supertrope, I guess that would be possible.

However, you are going to have to tweek the descriptions to make the distinctions clearer.

Right now, the description simply says "A very specific form of Blessed with Suck that comes up regularly where a character's beauty is a source of problems."

The word "problem" isn't limited to tangible things like injury. It also includes emotional issues.

edited 4th Mar '13 5:09:40 AM by Catbert

Embarrased Beauty may be a trope but, in my opinion, it's not this trope's supertrop. More like a cousin trope.

edited 4th Mar '13 6:42:33 AM by EditorPallMall

The question is Embarrassed Beauty a sub-trope to this trope? In other words, the cursed character isn't necessarily embarrassed (like Jessica Rabbit from the quote) but does any embarrassed character count as cursed? No one's saying that Embarrassed Beauty is this trope's supertrope. Is there overlap or not?

I think there's definitely an overlap, but I don't think there's a parent-child relationship.

Should we have a crowner to decide if cursed So Beautiful, It's a Curse extends to any Embarrassed Beauty or just launch Embarrassed Beauty as a sub-trope?

If there's a "neither" option.

Sorry, we have two possibilities. 1) Embarrassed Beauty is covered under So Beautiful, It's a Curse making Embarrassed Beauty a sub-trope or 2) one who is embarrassed doesn't necessarily count as cursed and Embarrassed Beauty should be it's own separate trope. Should we have a crowner to decide which it is?

Right now, as the description of So Beautiful, It's a Curse indicates, Embarrassed Beauty would be a subtrope. SBIAC covers actual harrassment or injury or harm coming to a character because of their beauty, but it also says "This is usually because of its effect on other characters, often times inspiring jealousy, intimidation, suspicion, unwanted attention, or the character only noticed because of their looks and not their personal merits."

"Unwanted Attention" would cover Embarrassed Beauty.