Cyberpunk 2077

Is there anyone else who has been tempted to look into the original pen and paper RPG because of this game? Or even its competitor, Shadowrun?

I've been thinking of getting into GMing recently, and my main target has been WHFRP because I got ALL the books and supplementary materials off a humble bundle sometime last year, but I'm also giving Cyberpunk 2020 a side-glance while keeping the door open for Shadowrun (which was apparently more popular because it was an easier 'in' for D&D players).

Edited by GoldenKaos on Jun 17th 2019 at 10:27:47 AM

Very much so. I have tried listening to some Shadowrun podcasts (Its world feels a little more... broad? The magic alleviates bits but it's just as GRIMDARK. Oddly, Cyberpunk has more optimistic elements in it...)

Both seem to have fairly complex rules and 6Ed of Shadowrun is out this year. I just lack a cohesive group of people interested in TT games... so Discord it is!

But not sure where to start is all.

Yeah, it's still a ways down the road for me I think since I'm currently playing two campaigns (D&D and Call of Cthulhu) in my local group and familiarising myself for Warhammer in case people are interested - but I'll certainly pick up the book(s) down the road and see what's up. If no-one wants in I might have to look for an online group, though I've never done that before.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Jun 17th 2019 at 11:25:44 AM

Ooooh I heard you can hack mooks & get them to blow their brains out with their own robot limbs.

Now that is dope.

As for places to start, I'd just read the core books I guess, or go on RP forums to ask about people's experiences with the games, which versions people prefer etc.

I wonder if there are homebrew rules for NOT having cybernetics make you go crazy? Like, if you wanted to go more post-cyberpunk rather than classic cyberpunk. Which reminds me of another trans-related complaint (or maybe 'beef') about the video game, that body modification is portrayed in a negative light when the trans community have wholehearedly embraced body modification, because of course they have. Of course, that's a clash with the genre rather than with the game, as one of cyberpunk's main themes is that technological progress won't necessarily make things better, but it obviously clashes with the experiences and worldview of a minority group who have received great benefits from that kind of progress enabling them to be themselves. Which sometimes makes me think that, given a lot of the somewhat dated elements of the cyberpunk genre, (which I'm not saying is inherently negative, but cyberpunk is inescapably a product of the 80s and early 90s) whether this video game should have adapted to the current times and become a post-cyberpunk setting. I don't personally think they could do that with this property, it codified too many elements of the setting, but it's an interesting thought.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Jun 17th 2019 at 11:40:32 AM

I'd guess probably not because crazy cyborgs is common trope and considered pretty cool. Ye'd have to check different settings for that, Starfinder doesn't have cybernetics make you crazy trope, but that is in science fantasy genre which is more closer to fantasy than what Shadowrun is

Apparently the source books go into that in more detail as cybernetics are the key selling point - basically, a quad amputee has NO ISSUES at all - and the closer you hew to human function then there's barely any impact.

The "cyberpsychosis" comes from shifting from human function - so, installing chainsaw arms, miniguns or going "full body conversion". Basically, the "humanity" stat is actually an "empathy" measure - and the more you view yourself as a superior being then the more it's impacted.

The more recent iterations are very pro-trans - with all the elements of just changing yourself treated as the norm.

Shadowrun has the Essence stat, which is more tied to the magic side - so the more robotic you are the less magic both impacts you and the less you can use magic - but since magic and soul are tied in setting, the more you chrome, the more it eats at you (What with cybernetics being VERY invasive).

In Cyberpunk, even fully chromed people can basically have their humanity balanced out by, basically, getting therapy. Both to restore "humanity"and also to come to terms with what essentially counts as body-dismorphia and disassociation.

It's an interesting point also where the trans experience also is in a weird place where it also underlines something important about it. After all, they know very much what it's like to be stuck with a body that doesn't fit them.

Conveying that without Unfortunate Implications may be beyond most games and the only reason why Cyberpsychosis exists anyway is because they wanted people not to turn themselves into Adam Jensen at the start.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 17th 2019 at 4:08:23 AM

Is there an actual reason to give yourself titanium shark teeth though?

Like the only reason you would even get such a thing is cause you wanna bite people.

The C20-verse has the majority of cyberpunk upgrades by professional killers (military, corporate, or criminals), porn stars (Mr. Studd), and criminals of another stripe. The people who do it are doing so for intimidation value or to fight over the scraps of a dying civilization.

But even Mike Pondsmith has said this element has to be handled carefully and that he never wanted to be ableist. It was a games mechanic designed merely to prevent players from hacking off limbs for cannons every level.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 17th 2019 at 4:25:20 AM

Intimidation, too. A bouncer or muscle with shark teeth can make the threat of being bitten go a long way. Plus, people are into rule of cool.

I think I actually remember a villain from somewhere who had interchangeable sets of teeth he could swap out, so he had stylish chrome or carbon fibre ones for meeting civilians or whatever and then sharp ones for being a baddie.

I might be remembering something wrong though, if I had to guess I'd say it was an Alex Rider villain.

Yeah, it always felt like it was just a game mechanic for balance.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Jun 17th 2019 at 12:25:59 PM

Like that's the thing.

There is nothing wrong with installing cybernetic limbs especially if you need cybernetic limbs for whatever reasons.

But also installing razor-sharp arm-length blades all over your body coated in a poison that will make you shit yourself as you scream horribly to death is kinda....... fucked up.

Yeah, so I think the "murdering cybernetics make you go murder-crazy" distinction is not super clear and it comes off as "cybernetic bad" instead.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Jun 17th 2019 at 12:53:57 PM

I mean, whenever Cybernetics Eat Your Soul trope is played, its almost never in context of prothesis or body modification, it tends to be in context of altering your brain or adding weapons to the body. Or robo tentacles

I'm not really seeing the trope as inherently unfortunate or offensive because I haven't really seen enough examples where it crosses over to offensive

(though there is probably some religious examples that are offensive, considering the trope name itself)

Edited by SpookyMask on Jun 17th 2019 at 3:26:01 PM

As a surface reading, yeah definitely. It's only when you look at the breakdowns of the specific mods - such as the Dragoon.

That thing is, basically, the Kane Robot from Robocop 2 - brain in a jar, fed anti-psychotic drugs and pretty much operated by remote even though it has a soldier's brain inside it. When out of the suit, the soldier is put into either a coma or a full-body prosthetic for counselling and monitoring.

Why? Because the thing basically has only a basic nutrition / waste system and is mostly an ECM, anti tank, infantry slaughtering MONSTER. If the PC encounters one, basically it is a total party wipe and a "GG" - save for VERY high level players. Or ones adept at legging it. Essentially, shit-hit-the-fan levels of "ya dun goofed".

It's not quite intended for the player, but is shown with all the states to explain the high level impact of something so far removed from humanity.

The full body borg conversions are, basically, Synths, but with human brains. And they aren't bad because they're ostensibly, human bodies and thus easier to identify with for the brain. But yeah, it's that challenge of game balance vs inclusion vs mixed messaging.

Come to thinking about systems without any kind of negative "going crazy" mechanic related to cybernetics, there is also Eclipse Phase. Closest thing is that when you get new morph you might have really confusing transition from humanoid to robot octopus. But yeah, that one allows you to play in really outlandish bodies

Edited by SpookyMask on Jun 17th 2019 at 3:33:33 PM

Do we have any confirmation on V being able to be trans? I hadn’t heard about this until just now.

They've said they're inserting it now.

Basically, CD_Projekt Red chose the only method that might actually make up for their bad reputation there.

There's also been suggestions that Mike Pondsmith suggested it to them.

Mike Pondsmith the creator of Cyberpunk 2020 has been heavily involved in the geames creation, working closely with Red.

He has done numerous interviews supporting the game & praising it.

The way I saw it described is that they're going to make character creation far more modular. Choosing male/female doesn't mean you get the full package of either/or across the board. That kind of thing. I won't go into more detail because I haven't seen what is and isn't confirmed.

Interesting. Depending on how well it's implemented it could be a great means of representation. Good on them.

@Golden Kaos 11xOff topic but I think the guy your talking about Arno Blunt is from Artemis fowl.

Having the original writer act as a consultant on this game is really awesome.

This video right here actually notes that certain official quests from Cyberpunk 2020 are actual canon events that happened in the backstory of 2077:

So the old pen and paper RPG can basically be seen as an introduction to this one.

Edited by ShirowShirow on Jun 17th 2019 at 10:35:45 AM

x6

Speaking from some of my knowledge on game development, it was probably something they wanted to put in and spitballed/drawing board-ed earlier in development, but was put on a secondary list of things to implement if they have the time and resources later; Get character creation down on a "standard" level before putting in stuff that might be more complicated or breaking new ground.

A lot of games have features developers wanted to do or realized would improve the story/theme/characters, but they're put on a back burner unless they have time and resources to add late in development. Which is usually the source of A LOT of content that gets left on the cutting room floor; they need to write the lines and record the dialogue for scenes they MIGHT be able to implement but they unfortunately just don't get it working or don't have the time to smooth it out.

The controversy about that ad in-game probably pushed the trans and gender queer options up on the priority list, assuming it wasn't already something they'd been working on before E3 2019.

For the moment, I'm cautiously optimistic about this but I haven't seen anything I really feel the need to be afraid of yet.

Edited by InkDagger on Jun 17th 2019 at 10:08:45 AM

You're damn right. Thanks.