Semi-protection level for pages

Wikipedia has this sort of system, if I recall. Semi-protection is, like on Wikipedia, an indefinite lockout. Semi-protected pages prohibits users who created their accounts fairly recently (30 days on Wikipedia) from editing them, while allowing veteran users unrestricted editing. Pages can remain semi-protected as long as mods see fit. Long story short, it's an indefinite level of protection between open and locked.

Is it possible for TV Tropes to have such a system? Currently, if circumstances foce a page to be locked, it locks out everyone, including legitimate tropers.

EDIT: Thanks to the mods for changing the title to something more descriptive.

edited 20th May '12 2:31:13 PM by JudgeSpear

I know that the forum side of the wiki has a mechanism to limit posting to new accounts for some unspecified period of time - a couple of weeks or so.

Such a mechanism would be capable of limiting vandals from causing too much damage, but I do not believe that cutting off all access to editing is appropriate; rather, it's counterproductive for all those who want to be constructive editors if they are denied access to editing for a full month.

I'm not a moderator, and I don't speak from any position of authority, but I do think that you raise a valid point. Certainly something to look at. Then again, The Fast One may have already put such a system in place and we just don't know about.

I think what he means is to create a system for semi-protecting pages so that only veteran tropers can edit them.

So, some sort of intermediate proposal between a full lock and open access?

I could see the merits of such a system. At the very least, there could be a sort of "Trusted Tropers" list for veteran editors who have demonstrated sufficient knowledge of the wiki policies and practices who get some degree of access to some of the more controversial pages.

Yeah, semi-protection is what I really meant to say. Pages locked under this system will only prevent those with very new accounts from editing those pages. Some people are known to use sock puppets, IP spoofing, wander to different computers, etc. to come right back after they are banned, and a system to semi-protect pages would be a very good defense against people like this, while leaving legitimate veteran tropers free to edit those pages.

edited 19th May '12 1:27:31 PM by JudgeSpear

Well, to be fair, there's a system of wiki curation in place whereby a lot of the more experienced and distinguished editors keep tabs on recent changes, and I hear it's pretty easy to revert changes to undo trolls and vandalism, but a more proactive approach isn't what I'd consider a bad idea.

The problem is that The Fast One only has a limited amount of time to dedicate to coding up features on the site, so we'd have to hear from him on anything like this.

This is definitely not a bad idea. The question is which pages will fall under this system? Just from looking at the Ask The Tropers, a lot of new tropers vandalize the video game pages or the Useful Notes.

Ideas (we could use either all of them or a couple):

1. Forced Tutorial. They're annoying, but it'll prevent tropers from using the "Oh, I didn't know that was a rule" excuse.
2. As soon as a troper gets known, redirect them to the Welcome To TV Tropes page.
3. Have new tropers pass a basic English test. Because not every troper with poor English wants to vandalize the site, we could redirect them to the Help with English thread.

Those pages with loads of vandalism could profit from newbie lockout, since vandals usually are newcomers. Also, pages with very high edit traffic that would be disrupted by plain locking.

Might there be a way to program the wiki to indentify common troll edits and automatically void the entry if detected?

I doubt that that would be worth the coding. A semi-protection would probably work better.

If a semi-protection system was implemented on TV Tropes, what period of time after account creation would be affected by a semi-protected page? I think Wikipedia has theirs set to 30 days and fewer.

I'd say at least 7 days to about 14 days...not quite as long as Wikipedia's.

I am pretty sure that this is going to be a secret thing. Otherwise, a vandal could simply wait until time-out is over.

Good point. If such a time period is announced, make it long...30 days or more. I'm sure not even the most persistent troll would want to wait one month or more just to vandalize something that would be reverted almost instantly, but then again, people do strange things...

edited 20th May '12 12:46:31 PM by JudgeSpear

I'd certainly support keeping the time length for an edit lockout secret. Perhaps we could also investigate new sign ups for obvious troll names, same IP, ect.

Checking I Ps won't really do much good, especially if the vandal is so tenacious as to hop from one computer to another or spoof their I Ps. He/she could also use proxies, but with the right tools, one can tell if a proxy is being used.

edited 20th May '12 1:09:57 PM by JudgeSpear

Still, most of the names trolls use are a dead giveaway. With an edit lockout it would give us time to see the resident Mass Effect troll is back under an obvious sock and remove him before he can do a thing. Making a mark and getting booted in seconds is one thing, but being denied even that would quickly drive off even the most determined troll.

I am sure we don't allow proxies to edit by default.

edited 20th May '12 1:08:59 PM by SeptimusHeap

To clarify, semi-protection is, like on Wikipedia, an indefinite lockout. Semi-protected pages prohibits users who created their accounts fairly recently (30 days on Wikipedia) from editing them, while allowing veteran users unrestricted editing. Pages can remain semi-protected as long as mods see fit.

I support having some pages locked (with a silver symbol, maybe?) to new accounts. Another thing that could be useful, though much less so, would be a tool for seeing the handles of the newest accounts created. This would catch obvious socks, names which are personal attacks, and proud trolls. However, ban evaders seem to often use unrelated handles, possibly to make them "harder" to track.

There is such a tool already, but I'll have to search a bit...

Here it is

edited 20th May '12 1:46:03 PM by SeptimusHeap

The sockpuppet identifier tool?

No, newbie one. Sockpuppets can only be seen by the staff (your own with an estimater), although many ban evaders not only use very similar handles, but very similar edits too.

edited 20th May '12 1:49:07 PM by SeptimusHeap

Closely related, is there any way to do a 'search edits by troper'? I ask because sometimes I see a bad edit and want to check if it's actually a problem editor (in which case I report said editor) or if it's just an honest mistake (in which case it gets corrected and no action need be taken).

So there is. Didn't see it hiding way down there.

edited 20th May '12 1:53:38 PM by DarkConfidant

On your watchlist page, there should be such a function on the bottom of the left column.

On pages with the non-collapsing side menu (seems to be anything that doesn't have pmwiki.php/), there's a tool at the bottom. On main wiki pages with the collapsing menu, click "tools" and it's one of the first boxes. If someone has a handle with spaces, make sure to wiki word it.

Oh, and thank-you, Septimus! I'm beginning to think that you are no mere Troper, but the Wiki Incarnate as it has achieved sentience beyond all that Fast Eddie could imagine... I'll add this tool and maybe one or two others to Itty Bitty Wiki Tools tomorrow.

edited 20th May '12 1:57:39 PM by Telcontar