The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

Right. Anyway, regardless, while we don't require Google, it is nice to have.

And we still need to find the source of the complaints as is.

Can anyone honestly tell me why we need a huge encyclopedia of tropes that categorize rape? I am legitimately curious as to why we would need such a thing on this site. Not trying to be a dick, not trying to stir up shit. Just trying to understand why cataloguing rape could be so important.

I've taken this approach:

Good work FE. Polite and informative, and just the right tone under the circumstances.

The letter looks just about right, Fast One.

I suppose all we can do now is wait for Google to respond, and to start looking for alternative revenue sources as a fallback if this doesn't work out. Perhaps pray as well, if one is inclined to do so.

This part looks like it is missing something.

How much does Google know about TV Tropes? Perhaps an explanation of who we are and what we do would help.

allfornot: Because the site's mission is to document patterns in fiction, and rape is one of the oldest subjects of storytelling. Look at how much of Greek mythology involves it.

I'm aware of that. And examining it's place in mythological setting such as that sounds reasonable. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't there a lot more focus on borderline-porn animes filled to the brim with creepy rape than there was on what you mentioned? I mean, I can't check now obviously as they're gone, but did we even specify that "Rape is Love" or "Rape is okay when It's Female on Male" were bad tropes that one should avoid when crafting a story? I'm aware of the no negativity rule, but don't you think we could have bent that, and pointed out how awful stories that contained those tropes were?

edited 6th Jun '12 10:40:01 PM by allfornot2

Neither of those were called that any more. And even when they were, it was specified that the trope was about the attitude, not that the names were true.

Also, bringing questionable anime into the conversation isn't helpful. There are example from every medium. Saying "But there were bad examples" isn't an excuse, when the bad examples could just be cut.

Also, the no negativity rule is about works, not tropes. Tropes can have negative connotations.

Finally, all of this has been covered in this thread today. Perhaps it would be a good idea to go back and read over it.

edited 6th Jun '12 10:46:52 PM by BadWolf21

I recall that both pages pointed out the Unfortunate Implications of the tropes.

I'll be sure to wade through 180 pages, bud. I was trying to point out that these are things someone coming in with a fresh non tropery perspective would be creeped out and put off by.

Be that as it may, that may have been overshadowed by the hundred some-odd examples that followed. And not to belabor a dead-point, but this is a family friendly place, right? 50 pages of rape, doesn't scream "Hey Grandma! Hey little cousin Susie! Come look at this great website. I'm reading all about the wondrous world of rape." Edited: My post looked like hard to read shit.

edited 6th Jun '12 10:57:14 PM by allfornot2

Family Friendly does not mean G-Rated.

This wiki is not suitable for all ages.

That is not what "family friendly" means. (Ninja'd on this point)

And I didn't say read the whole thread. I advised that you read through today's posts. Big difference.

edited 6th Jun '12 10:57:13 PM by BadWolf21

Put next to the number of pages the wiki has on everything else, I'm not sure that really seems like a lot.

I'm sorry but saying things happened is not the same as saying it's a good thing, a lot of the examples had bullet points about why the examples were frustrating or morally repugnant (within reason). And as I recall our "Family Friendly" policy is really more along the lines of SFW.

So if there's no rape, then the place is G-rated? I don't remember seeing much rape in anything other than R-rated movies. Which are non-family friendly by design.

So family friendly means what exactly? Cause, I'm not exactly comfortable introducing anyone, much less a younger person, to a story in which rape is treated as anything other than horrible.

Maybe so. But would those massive lists of tropes happen to be dealing with something as abhorrent as rape?

edited 6th Jun '12 11:01:27 PM by allfornot2

There are YA novels that deal with the topic of rape. Don't claim that rape isn't seen outside of R-rated media.

Also, you're strawmanning. No one said that rape isn't horrible. Not all (in fact, almost none) of the examples made rape out to be anything other than repugnant.

edited 6th Jun '12 11:02:22 PM by BadWolf21

Are there any YA novels in which the hero is a rapist? Cause I find that to be a little hard to believe.

Edit: I don't believe I accused anyone of being pro-rape here. I can kinda see how you might get that, but I was more focused on there being about a trillion examples of works that treat rape as a good thing on this Family Friendly site.

Edit2:Are you sure you know how strawmanning works? There were examples on here. About works. In which the hero raped people.

If you think I'm trolling because I'm creeped out by how rape is looked at on this site, then I really have no words for you.

edited 6th Jun '12 11:12:17 PM by allfornot2

I'm out. I'm not going to argue with strawman arguments, there are people much better at this than I am, and it's late.

edited 6th Jun '12 11:03:50 PM by BadWolf21

Don't feed the troll(s), peeps.

I don't think it'd harm a teen's mind to inform them that there exists works that don't treat rape like it's as horrible as it is. Mostly old stuff with Values Dissonance, crappy romance novels, and crappy porn. The last of which we're getting rid of info of off the site.

Tropes do not necessarily deal with the hero of a story, explicit actions, or glorify there material. Tropes occur in all forms of media, thus, attempting to use "Ive only seen R-Rated movies mention rape" as the end all to the conversation makes no sense.

Having rape tropes makes as much sense as would having any other story telling trope, If the element is recurring, and brought up repeatedly across many medias, it rightfully deserves to have a page here cataloging it in a mature, and clean matter, given that it can be covered in a clean matter.

Well why is the fact that the trope has a Villain Protagonist or Designated Hero who commits the rape matter? The fact is it happened and it was terrible but ignoring it doesn't change the situation.

That's the thing though. If memory serves, it wasn't treated in a mature, clean way. It had 50+ pages all dealing with ways in which rape is fetishized or seen in a positive manner.

And stories in which said, "Villain Protagonist" would perform such an action are best left on a site that doesn't purport to be fit for the whole family.

edited 6th Jun '12 11:19:51 PM by allfornot2

Which we've been cleaning and fixing, not to mention getting rid of some of them.

So I don't believe that issue exists anymore. Especially if we can lock the ones that people can't stay away from.

This needs to be repeated: This site is not meant for the whole family.

edited 6th Jun '12 11:22:03 PM by Hydronix