Recommendations for Perusal by 5P

Yeah, putting here things that have been officially rated low is ridiculous.

Hey, can I ask you a question?

What if a work is rated higher in one area than in one other?

Dutch Lesbian

This is ridiculous.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:18:29 AM by Octo

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

I believe we're giving more weight to Western ratings (particularly U.S. ones).

What is?

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:17:48 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I'm pretty sure we're going by American standards.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:17:33 AM by encrypted12345

Full Battle Mode

[@378: I think the American standard will prevail, but the 5P will probably check based upon the highest rating.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:18:02 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Well, FE clearly said he wanted nothing pedophile on the wiki. Even Lolita was initially cut due to that, and even though that will surely get reverted, his argument about this was that he wants nothing involving pedophilia here. Nothing. However, such ratings are always about the level of expliciteness. So what if something isn't explicit, hence has a mild rating, but still is obviously pedo-pandering?

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:19:34 AM by Octo

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

Incorrect. We cannot deny paedophilia exists, otherwise we would have cut Law And Order. It's paedo-pandering we don't want.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:21:28 AM by lu127

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

Recommending Disgaea because the art's a little fan servicy and because the latest game has a visual Shout-Out to Lotte No Omocha is pretty ridiculous.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:22:29 AM by encrypted12345

Full Battle Mode

Octo, don't be an ass. Show me a kid- or teen-rated work that has actual pedo pandering.

@whale: We're going by American standards as the override — however, my experience is that in European countries, they tend to be looser on the sex and harder on the violence. so American standards are probably more indicative.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:23:38 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

<Face Palm> This is why I and others kept asking that any intention for the new guidelines/rules to not sound like "hard and fast rules" be made absolutely clear/unambiguous. Gross misunderstandings like this are only inevitable with the current phrasing/wording of the rules/guidelines.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:24:32 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

You set the barrier at NC-17. That's a bit more than just "stuff aimed at children", I think.

Okay, true. But rating doesn't necessarily involve that. Rating will only be about how explicit the stuff is. if it's "innocent" (hah!) pedo-pandering (e.g. masses of pantyshots, innuendo etc.) it might not affect the rating that badly.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:24:51 AM by Octo

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

Grow up, Octo. You can get PG-13 ratings with shots of naked breasts, but you cannot get it with kids having sex. At least not that I've ever heard.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

KNJ would've at the most improbable worst garnered an R rating (more likely a T/PG-13 rating) based on its heavy fanservice, and it didn't get a US license on the sole grounds of reactions to its premise alone. I think that's a good example.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:27:05 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I just asking because TES:IV was rated as Mature in the US but as "Teen" or 16 by PEGI.

Dutch Lesbian

The point isn't that we're automatically cutting M-rated content, but that it's not worth reviewing stuff that's been officially approved for young adults or lower. No matter what Octo thinks about the occasional panty shot being some kind of OMG PEDO MAGNET RUUUUNNNNN.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Thank you, Fighteer. This is a good step forward.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

FE has said he wants none of that, though. And while you're free to disagree, posting rules as mod smells like abuse of authority.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:30:52 AM by Octo

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

My point was, if rated as Mature in the US but teen or acceptable in Europe, would the person be seen as trolling?

Dutch Lesbian

Nope.

It's my idea that the highest rating that was given is the benchmark if the issue is paedophilia*

, and American rating if porn is the issue.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:32:51 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

@whale: We are counting on people to recommend works for review in good faith. That means that they aren't taking an extreme position of "you can see a girl's panties therefore it is UNHOLY BAD GRR." We're trying avoid the kind of absolute guidelines that make people like Octo get so riled up.

Someone who recommends a PG rated work for review, for example, had better have a damn good reason why. Further, given the enormous breadth of material on this wiki, it's probably a more efficient use of our time to start with the mature/adult stuff and work our way down from there.

@Octo: Eddie is free to correct any of us if he feels that we're misrepresenting his position. He also values our input, and he has been clear from the beginning that there is a distinction between material that discusses kids' sexual issues, and material that sexually exploits them.

If you have a problem with this, you are welcome to comment constructively. So far, however, you've been one of those people demonstrating the "bad faith" I talked about above. If you are not interested in having a productive conversation, then I see no need for your continued presence in it.

edited 22nd Apr '12 7:38:31 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Whale of Your Nightmare, no, I don't think they will be seen as trolling if at least one rating system declares the work to be mature.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

I'll be honest, even M or R ratings are not likely to be violating policy. You can't get an R rating in the U.S. with explicit sex — those would get pushed to X. For games, that would merit an AO.

Mainstream bookstores may sell porn or erotica, but it's usually in specific sections of the store and may be sealed prior to sale or at least specially marked.

I reiterate that we are not cutting everything that has sex or naked people in it. We are cutting porn and material that intentionally panders to pedo interests.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I know of alot of Cinemax or Skinmax if you're trying to be funny, adult films that are trimmed to from NC-17 to rated R to be rented on blockbuster or netflix or aired on Cinemax in the first place. It can still be pornography film and be rated R.

Pirates XXX is a key example, and it pretty much is porn without plot.

Likewise their is plenty of legal pedoshit that squeaks by with similar ratings, but only in cartoon and literature land as opposed to mediums not featuring real people.

Though yeah, anything with a PG-13 rating or EU equivalent should be made autosafe.

edited 22nd Apr '12 8:33:24 AM by TheManInBlack