Page Restoration Petitions

Well, the author did an Ass Pull and made it so they were never related at all. -_-

edited 30th Apr '12 2:57:24 PM by encrypted12345

Full Battle Mode

I'm only up to book 5! I'm on American fan time folks! But on the other hand, unless the other 5 books become some sort of pedo screw fest instead of the heartwarming story of family it has been, Bunny Drop would continue to be unobjectionable, especially if she's of age when they hook up.

I think incest would only be a strike against it if they showed them doing it, right?

edited 30th Apr '12 3:17:52 PM by animeg3282

Wait, back up a moment. Whether they're related or not is pretty much irrelevant as far as our content policy goes, right?

I'll be the first to admit how off topic that was.

Full Battle Mode

In theory, yes. However, if people are going to bring it up as a point of defense for it, or offense against it, it does become a problem.

And, obviously, I'm not qualified to do either, since I didn't know about that plot twist.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)

I had been spoiled for it before, but I assumed that the tone of the book {girl and man become a family) stays the same.

As mentioned, incest is a problematic subject which is its own separate can of worms - and not the one we're dealing with now, which is allegations of paedophile-pandering.

EDIT: Thanks for making it clearer. The statement above should be interpreted as "we're not dealing with incest as a stand-alone issue (for now)".

edited 30th Apr '12 11:18:28 PM by Pyrite

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.

Incest is a concern. Incest by itself isn't grounds for cutting, but for me it definitely makes something that's already close to porn or pedo even worse.

edited 30th Apr '12 5:15:55 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

Are you more likely to vote to cut something if it's incestuous all else being equal, then? Because if it's not a "criteria for cutting" then I should think that that's a bit of a problem.

Another thing we're looking at here is "prurience." By some translations that's one of the 5 P's, and it's one of Eddie's preferred terms.

Incest is certainly prurient, and the addition of incest to already questionable content just makes it that much more likely to be intended to titillate certain deviant fetishes.

So yes, sometimes it can be the tipping point, of prurience.

Let's look at a hypothetical example - because I don't know if there are any actual examples of something I voted to cut that would fit. Let's say there's a work with lots of softcore sexual scenes, but enough plot to tie the scenes together and make you think, "well maybe it's worth reading for just the story." But the sex scenes are between a 52-year old father and his 16-year old daughter. Now, normally I wouldn't cut something just because there's a huge age disparity, especially since 16 is the age of consent in my home state of New Jersey as well as many others. But since this is about a father and daughter, it takes on shades of pedoshit and general depravity.

edited 30th Apr '12 5:23:55 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

We should probably make that more clear then.

I mean, a lot of people would expect that furries are an issue of prurience, and a lot of other people think that the P5 team believes that it is. So I question whether that's a good road to travel down.

edited 30th Apr '12 5:22:38 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

I edited to add a hypothetical example, since I couldn't think of any works I voted to cut where incest was a tipping point.

The difference between incest and furry is that regardless of my personal opinions on furry sex, it's perfectly legal and impossible to actually carry out in real life, but incest is illegal, an actual real-world problem, and pretty much universally considered despicable and depraved at least in the Western world.

I'm not going to cut Some Furry Comic just because there's softcore and it involves furries while otherwise focusing on the story. I guess even my favorite Blacksad might fall under that. And obviously I'm not going to vote to cut that, nor would anyone even put it on the list.

edited 30th Apr '12 5:27:24 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

I think we should restore So Bad It's Horrible's Fan Fic subsection. We could remove the ones that seem like recommendations, and we can also remove the links so that innocent tropers don't find them. We could also lock the pages so that new entries can only be added with a moderator's approval.

I agree, that page was a riot.

Related to this, was the cutting and locking of Web Original related to the whole P5 thing?

No, that was cut because we made a bunch of different Web(media) namespaces to replace Web Original.

FanFic.So Bad Its Horrible is more of a mod issue, I think, since it included lots and lots of complaining as well as all the awful stuff it got cut for.

edited 30th Apr '12 5:52:39 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

Ah, thanks for the info. I thought maybe people were creeping on the That Guy With The Glasses staff again or something...

Web Original stuff's just being re-namespaced elsewhere, not cut.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

To add a bit to the LnO anime vs. manga discussion (I was sleeping the whole time): the anime has ended while manga is still ongoing, so the anime may feel "tamer" simply because the manga contains more content (in sheer quantity) while having same "density" of "questionable" one.

edited 1st May '12 12:07:42 AM by OneMore

I was trying to find a point to bring this part in, so thanks, but I disagree with you on this matter - at least, based on what I've seen so far. The scanlated manga chapters cover more or less the same amount of material as the corresponding anime episodes (in fact, the Gecko Ending adds extra material for the anime), and it's clear that a definite effort was made to tone the anime down for broadcast even where the same scenario was preserved. I'll cite one example:

• Chapter 10-12 vs Ep 4-5 cover the same basic scenario: The queen visits Lotte unannounced and meets Naoya and Asuha by accident, family relations are revealed, and Naoya and Asuha subsequently sneak into the castle to visit the queen.
  • Manga version: The queen notes that her daughter has started building her harem, and subsequently sneaks in with predatory intent after the official visit when she suspects that Lotte is hiding a man from her. While Naoya and Asuha are sneaking into the castle, the issue of "coital services" is raised with Lotte, and Lotte, the sage (a 7-year-old with 300 years of knowledge transplanted into her) and one of the maids end up looking at what is implied to be porn.
  • Anime version: The queen misses out on the school's PTA and decides to sneak in on Lotte to apologise, but runs into Naoya and Asuha by accident. The discussion on sex and references to porn have been cut. In addition, the anime's depiction of the queen as someone who cares for her daughter's well-being but has to juggle her duties with affairs of state is definitely Lighter and Softer compared to the manga's sexually-predatory demon queen.

edited 2nd May '12 6:41:50 AM by Pyrite

Not a substitute for a formal medical consultation.

Yeah, that was what I was noticing. The anime really just is much less sexual. Even the succubus thing is much less sexual and it's more "when you're an adult, you'll need to know how to deal with men" rather than a mother trying to sexualize her pre-teen daughter. Lotte isn't sexualized in the anime like she is in the manga, and any sex involving her is treated as something that isn't going to happen for years.

The succubus thing in the anime ends up more as a metaphor for marriage and puberty and overcoming her fear of men in general than it does paedobait.

I would honestly ban talking about the manga and just allow the anime, but that's me.

edited 1st May '12 7:16:27 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I think that should be not as much "talking about the manga" as "talking about that peculiar things in the manga". It's not as if any discussion of the manga would be about teenage girls having sex.

I doubt that this work's regular tropers (me included) would be happy for the page to contain pedo-gushing.

edited 1st May '12 7:57:35 AM by OneMore

I watched the page *just* to keep it clean of any gushing like that. Lotte's purity must be preserved!

Going by Shima's description, I'd agree with the "Anime page only" suggestion.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!

Actually, most of what Shimaspawn said...

...also applies to the manga as well. It's only really pedobait if you want to see it as such.

Yes, the anime is tamer than the manga. But not by much.

edited 1st May '12 9:05:57 AM by OneMore

The manga looks too skeevy. I don't think it can be brought back. According to descriptions, the anime is actually tame, so if there's a convincing case for it, it could have its own page, but I suspect it would stay locked.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer