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You know, I'm amazed that a thread like this wasn't made sooner! Oh well, better late than never!
It sure is amazing how Batman started way back in May 1939. That's 73 years ago and counting for those who don't do math! What's funny is how Batman in those first stories would be almost unrecognizable compared to the character we all know and love today. Batman, believe it or not, actually killed criminals and used a gun, and was totally unapologetic about any of it! The first villain he went up against was arguably Doctor Death, and D.D. supposedly died in a chemical fire. The kicker is that Batman didn't even try to save him, but rather stood back and watched, saying "Death...to Doctor Death!" Characterization Marches On with this guy, oh yes indeedy!
You know what would make an interesting story idea? If they have a Batman show up who acts just the Batman in the Doctor Death story. Bruce Wayne has to intervene and try to stop this guy. Then it turns out that the imposter is a schizophrenic homeless bum named "Crazy Steve", who thinks that he's Batman! (If you've read up on the All Star Batman And Robin article, you'll get the joke!)
Does that sound like a good idea?
edited 11th Apr '12 12:00:30 PM by TiggersAreGreat
^ You had me up until you mentioned "Crazy Steve."
There might be good money in writing an explicitly non-canon miniseries with Batman hewing closer to his original Golden Age characterization.
Well, see! I just get a feeling that having the Golden Age Batman return in one form or another would make for an interesting story. Frank Miller's All Star Batman And Robin may not have been the best work ever made, but it was interesting how he brought Batman and The Joker pretty close to their Golden Age roots. Of course, that's the trouble with having a character that was created 70 plus years ago...most people wouldn't know or remember that there was a time, however briefly, when both characters more or less acted just like that!
edited 11th Apr '12 2:53:37 PM by TiggersAreGreat
So has anyone checked out any of the Court of owls crossovers? Batman remains as awesome as ever, and so far the other titles are really interesting. I'm glad they're not just glossing over that plot point with Nightwing last issue, but I am disappointed that Red Hood didn't get to fight any Talons.
Yeah, this Night Of The Owls event is really expanding on territory that hasn't been explored before. That's an impressive feat, considering that Batman's been going on for 70 plus years, and you would think that after all that time everything that could be tried has been tried!
Am I the only who thinks that NOTO is more Nightwing's story than Batman's. I mean, let's see...Nightwing has a deadly rival named Saiko (Psycho?), he has Love Interest and Green-Eyed Redhead named Raya Vestri, and one of the Talons, William Cobb, is revealed to be Nightwing's great-grandfather! Holy Plot Twist, Batman!
edited 19th Apr '12 5:56:41 PM by TiggersAreGreat
They're definitely heavily connected, but I can't help but feel Nightwing takes it a little too easily. Either way their target is always Gotham's elite, so I think Bruce is just as important to the events.
SO there's a big, generational conspiracy that rewrites the history of some long-established characters?
It's well written, well drawn, and well executed but...Ech. The concept just leaves me absolutely cold.
From what I've heard, Comic Book readers have little tolerance for change. The funny thing is, comic books had to change to fit in with society, from The Golden Age Of Comic Books to The Silver Age Of Comic Books to The Bronze Age Of Comic Books to The Dark Age Of Comic Books. I'm just saying that things change and sometimes you have to accept that...still, it doesn't mean you have to like it!
edited 20th Apr '12 5:51:34 AM by TiggersAreGreat
Not really. Nightwing was supposed to become a Talon when he grew up, but that hasn't happened yet. There's no way anyone could ever know about this because even The Batman thought the Court was a fairy tale.
The changes brought about to the history of character in question by the Court of Owls storyline are hardly indicative of "the changing times." They don't update the character in any way, they just add an, in my opinion, unneeded layer to his backstory. It seems like a cheap ploy to give the story an emotional punch that it would otherwise have lacked.
I know I shouldn't complain; these sorts of changes have a habit of not sticking around long. I don;t mind change, really, just conspiracies, ehich bore the heck out of me. Don't mind me, though; it's my problem, not yours, if you're enjoying the story.
I find the whole owl stuff unncessarily convoluted and forced all of a sudden.
Wow, I just read through the Batman WMG Page...
I lost it at the Billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne is the Batman! one...Meta CMOF.
Funny I felt that way about ALL of Morrison's stuff, and find this a refreshing change of pace.
...Anyone else watched Holy Musical Batman?
edited 24th Apr '12 7:30:50 PM by Maridee
I'm afraid not. Why, I've never even heard of such a thing!
So, what do you think of writer Scott Snyder? That dude has got big, ambitious plans for Batman!
For instance, one issue has The Reveal of Bruce Wayne having an insane brother named Thomas Wayne Jr.. Now, before you start screaming Shocking Swerve, here's an interesting tidbit to consider: this plotline had actually been touched on years ago in real time, but it became an Aborted Arc. Snyder is simply taking this AA and actually somewhere with it!
edited 16th Jun '12 5:57:25 PM by TiggersAreGreat
It became an Aborted Arc for a good reason: because it's a freaky damn bad idea.
I dunno, everyone talks big about Snyder, but I don't think he's a good writer. Too dark for the sake of being dark. Wants to redefine everything. Derails characters. Retcons for the hell of it. All flash and little substance. He's a good resume of what's wrong with comics today.
edited 17th Jun '12 6:27:10 AM by NapoleonDeCheese
Wait, so what makes it such a freaky damn bad idea?
I personally think of Snyder as fresh, new blood in the Comic Book industry. A number of the writers are getting old, and have lost their prime and edge. They need to bring in newer, younger writers to handle the stories now.
edited 17th Jun '12 9:46:46 AM by TiggersAreGreat
Um it really isnt Character derailment, retcons, because it's a whole new Universe. It rebooted. Things changed. It isn;t that bad. And of course he is redefining everytbing, he has the chance to after the reboot. He also has love for stories past past and doesn't make things too dark and depraved like Morrison did
It's true it's a whole universe reboot (then again, it was an ill conceived, badly planned, unnecessary and ultimately harmful universal reboot in the first place, but that's a topic for another thread), but he was going that way even before the reboot started, and would most likely have taken the same decisions even without the universal reboot.
Eh he might have and he might not have, but your point about derailing characters and retcons doesn;t mean anything now as it's a new universe new character personalities and new backstories.
Oh, let's be honest. Redefining stuff in Comic Books has been necessary throughout the decades! Batman started out as a vigilante in 1930s New York who had no qualms about killing bad guys or using guns. A lot obviously changed in Real Life and the art that imitates it to some degree. Redefining Batman is something that has to happen, because how else could he have lasted since the 1930s?
Oh, hey! Did you guys hear? Scott Snyder is going to write a storyline titled The Return Of The Joker Death Of The Family!
For those who don't keep track, The Joker had his face removed (serious Squick there) and had not been seen since. Well, according to Snyder, there's a reason for all that. And if I'm getting what he's saying right, Joker's going to go after every single member of the Batman family!
If you want to know more, I would advise you to check this out...and to keep in mind that it is probably Not Safe for Work!
I really hate the argument that it's okay to derail characters because they've changed over time. Batman not using guns wasn't this huge author driven thing, it was just a natural progression of the logic of the character. There's a huge difference between that and something like the change of Wonder Woman to Diana and I-ching's book.
While I agree that Synder is really brooding I do think it's hard to write for a legacy character without changing some aspects of them to meet your own concepts.
Wonder Woman is a different story. She's a product of multiple writers who have been unable to come up with one vision of the character, and have not been able to write one memorable storyline starring her. Unlike Batman.
Personally, I don't see bringing in a crazy long-lost brother of Bruce Wayne as Character Derailment. I see it as a chance to look at something a little different.
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