Embarassing crap on the wiki

Yes. Making these a rule for recommended works is a far too draconian option. That being said, applying them to the recommendation is a good idea - in fact, it should already be a rule.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Don't put words in my mouth, Marq. You have no right to that. I have not mentioned a single specific work. I speak of the rec itself, as Septimus said.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

Pedo fics are technically not illegal as well but we still do not want them here.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Then you should've made that clear. As Septimus' first reponse showed, your post was ambiguous on that.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Lu specifically said fanfic recs.

@Raso: Only the recs. We still have work pages on it, but they need to be de-creepified. I wouldn't mind if we didn't have those work pages, but they're far from "not allowed".

Quest 64 thread

That is what I meant >< sorry.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

No, there are laws that explicitly criminalize depicting even fictional characters that are below the legal age engaging in explicit sexual activity.

Depends on where you are in the world. Fictional sexual content involving minors is not blanket illegal in the US, it also has to be obscene.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.

In practice, though, "obscene" stretches pretty far. I remember reading about this a year or so back, and the court system is fully capable of stretching most explicit fiction into the definition of "obscene".

edited 3rd Apr '12 12:51:21 PM by KingZeal

I.E. the court's "I know it when I see it" rule regarding what counts and what does not count as "obscene".

More specifically, Lu said "would it be a good idea to extend this rule from the forum rules to fanfic recs?", which can be just as easily mean "make it so if the fanfic violates the rules, it gets axed from the fanfic recs" as it can mean "make it so if the fanfic recommendation entry violates the rules, it should be rewritten to remove the offending parts." And I was also working with what I got from my argument with Lu regarding Chunin Exam Day on the Naruto thread.

edited 3rd Apr '12 12:53:43 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Quite true, but it is still distinct from blanket ban. Obscenity in the US is basically defined by jury ruling, so it's really hard to say what is and is not obscene a priori, but the Supreme Court has so far blocked attempts to criminalize explicit depictions of underage sex per se.

edited 3rd Apr '12 12:54:22 PM by lebrel

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.

Marq, you're overreading what Lu said. That was never said at all. The fact that he/she said only fanfic recs should show what he/she meant.

@KZ: Only pictures depicting minors is actually illegal all-around the world. Fanfiction is not. I'd be fine if it was, but that's not the case at all.

edited 3rd Apr '12 12:57:26 PM by Hydronix

Quest 64 thread

Which makes many people wonder why they are doing that.

As I said, I was coming out just fresh from our argument on the Naruto thread ([1] [2][3]) when I saw that post.

edited 3rd Apr '12 12:58:24 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Because the Constitution has some hard requirements about laws criminalizing the expression of something.

Anyway, what is the point of all this law-interpreting? I think that Lu's idea applied to recs is already implied in No Lewdness and the rules against Flame Bait, while extending it to the rec'd work Needs Enforcement And Purpose Details and is likely too draconian anyway.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Trying to police the contents of the rec that far is a waste of time. No reason to do it.

However, the recommendation itself is a different matter.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

@1212: "Only pictures depicting minors is actually illegal all-around the world."

Sexually explicit pictures of actual minors are illegal all around the world (with some hair-splitting over possession vs distribution, etc). Sexually explicit pictures of fictional minors are legal in many places (including the US, so long as they are not obscene).

@1213: "Which makes many people wonder why they are doing that."

Why they are doing what? The US Supreme Court has so far argued that child pornography is illegal because it requires the sexual abuse of a child to produce and is a record of such abuse, whereas criminalizing sexually explicit "depictions" of minors (drawings, etc) would constitute an abridgment of First Amendment rights of free speech.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.

I opened a can of worms here....

Anyway Fan Fic recs IMO make all the tags correct and if that tag list includes "minor", "loli" "Shota" etc in it it better not be a Lemon. (or something like Highschool romance with another High school student yada)

edited 3rd Apr '12 1:15:33 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Which what we already are doing, with the "minor"/"loli" part being the newest addition and an ongoing process at the moment.

Wait, what does non-sexually explicit highschool romance have to do with the ruling's prohibitions?

edited 3rd Apr '12 1:17:03 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I'm pretty sure the decision to excise pedophilic (or whatever the correct term is) fanfic links has nothing to do with the law itself. It's a matter of taste and avoiding offending people.

Now which people Eddie is trying to avoid offending, I'm not entirely sure.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)

IIRC it was more of a child of the recent forum and wiki rule against any thread discussion of pedophilia or pedophiliac tone in example/article writing.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Also, the administration doesn't want paedophilia here by default.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

See this

edited 3rd Apr '12 1:20:07 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

That falls under "discussion of pedophilia", I think. I didn't hear of anyone banned simply because they previously expressed not minding pedophiliac porn or pedophiliac elements in works like Kodomo No Jikan in currently permazapped threads.

edited 3rd Apr '12 1:28:32 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

BTW should I remove all links on the KNJ page or is that going too hard?

There is a sticky in Special Efforts for that.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman