Jim Sterling (The Jimquisition)

The least polished Mario games would probably be the edutainment games (Mario is Missing / Mario's Time Machine) and those weren't made by Nintendo to begin with.

And some of the sports game have been lackluster, though that's like holding Sonic Spinball against Sonic.

Another thing to note is that the Sonic franchise has constantly switched hands. Mario has more or less been in the care of Nintendo's cream of the crop, no matter what name the dev team proper is under. You don't see Miyamoto searching for other pastures when a main Mario game comes out.

Heck, even when Mario went into a genre as different from his usual fare as the RPG genre the games were polished and fun.

Constantly is an exaggeration.

It's only happened twice.

While outside of Square, any other company that has worked on Mario has been 2nd party.

Changing teams itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. For example at Firaxis it's been policy that no one gets to direct 2 Civilization games. Every game gets a new director (Though some may have started directing expansions). And the franchise is solid. It has lows, but nothing truly wretched.

I do think the key difference between Sonic and Mario is polish. There's weaker Mario games, but they are always polished. Modern Nintendo won't allow itself to release a Mario game that doesn't meet their standards of quality.

Sega will crank out Sonic, without a care for what the product's state is.

That's incorrect.

Alpha Dream (Mario and Luigi games) is technically a third party as while hired by Nintendo and partnered with them, it's a whole independent company.

Ubisoft (Mario V Rabbids), is obvious a third party.

Several of the sports game have been outsourced to third parties. Next Level Games made the soccer games and Luigi's Mansion 2 for example. They are not a Nintendo subsidiary.

It also must be said, ahf the derision the Sonic franchise gets is from non-fans, because for them it's fun to mock. It's easy to get caught up in a character that seems stuck in the past and met with low-quality 3d games, but that's a pretty big oversimplification.

If you were to look at most opinions that come up on an easy search, you'd get the impression nobody liked the 3d games. Reality is the Adventure titles and several spinoffs around that time are still relevant to the fanbase as popular titles.

Also, Never Live It Down is very much a thing. Most Sonic fans have been sick of 06 jokes, it's been done for 13 years and isn't going away anytime soon. Meanwhile the new comics or the Boom cartoon which was the main point in that particular sub franchise is rarely mentioned.

Point is, the internet loves to exaggerate Sonic as a doomed franchise when it's not so simple.

Sonic games are the Nickelback or McDonalds of video games. They're a "cool-to-hate" guilty pleasure. Everyone loves to talk shit about his games every chance they get. And yet enough people are buying them for the franchise to still be relevant today.

I've seen the take of "Sonic is a 90's concept that has been difficult to modernize" or something along those lines multiple times now, but while there might be some degree of truth to that statement I think it ignores the actual specific problem, namely that Sega simply doesn't care enough about Sonic to get him right in a consistent way.

From what I understand Sonic is far less popular in Japan than in the west, so they often fail to give Sonic Team much in the way of resources and time. Also I get the impression that Sonic Team itself is basically a division that people pass through to go bigger and better things rather than an important part of the company. The way they trusted Forces (a milestone celebration for the series) to a bunch of inexperienced newcomers says a lot.

I've come to realize that the more the internet desperately tries to convince people that a particular work is trash, the less likely it is to be true (See also: Final Fantasies XIII and XV).

Remember Too Human? Probably not, it's pretty bad, and everyone just sort of moved on and forgot about it. You don't have hordes of people screaming about how bad it is, hurling insults at anyone that might actually enjoy it, or sending death threats to its developer.

I think as Sonic Mania and Sonic Mania Adventures have proved, Classic Sonic actually can age amazingly well.

I think the time's come to give Modenr Sonic a very long break for now, let Classic and Whitehead and Thomley take the reins for a good long while.

Hell, there's a running narrative among those same non-fans that believe the old Sega games were never good because they dislike the design elements of the 2D main titles. You really have to find actual fans to get a consensus on Sonic game quality these days.

I would not trust a fanbase to offer a very objective take on the quality of a franchise installment. A minor misrepresentation of a character can cause them to declare a good game trash and a bit of fanservice can cause them to recommend stuff the average player wouldn't care for.

That's a really general statement mind, not directed on sonic in particular.

I don't think any franchise has been as much of a rollercoaster though. You find the best and the worst in that series.

It's sort of a reverse Hype backwash: just like how praising something to Heavens will make people create unreasonable expectations for its quality, bashing it too much will make any of its actual qualities shine through its flaws whenever someone gives it a chance.

I sympathize with this sentiment. When you hear so much negativity about certain things, it becomes a game of "how bad could it really be?" And sometimes, you discover that you kind of like the thing in question.

Granted sometimes you think it can't be that bad, only to experience it yourself and realize if anything it's worse.

The 2006 game really was a disaster. Its development was a complete mess and it shows.

Edited by M84 on May 7th 2019 at 10:48:08 PM

As said though, that's 13 years ago. Almost half the over all length of Sonic's career, and it's mostly the non-fans who won't let it go. It has every valid reason to be criticized as the hot mess it is, but it's a joke that's not just gotten old, it's so stale it's molding in your fridge.

Meanwhile Sonic Unleashed did very well, Sonic Colors was seen as a return to form, Generations was a smash hit, and Lost World didn't do terribly either, even if it won't be anyone's favorite game any time soon. Not to mention the fan favorite Rush games, the generally solid first two Riders games, and of course Mania.

Out of all of the last ten years or so, the only truly bad games are 06 and the Boom titles, and even then the cartoon the games promoted is fairly well liked by those that have seen it.

Sonic Unleashed's reception was somewhat mixed. It did not do "very" well.

Sonic Forces was also kind of contentious.

Edited by M84 on May 8th 2019 at 1:45:43 AM

I feel like 06 should never be forgotten. I feel like it's important that that game looms as a spectre over Sonic, SEGA, and even gaming as a whole.

Keep in mind that game sold well. Really well! People bought that game in droves because they loved the brand, wanted to try out their shiny new consoles and didn't think it was physically possible to create a piece of shit that stunk that badly.

Think of how many poor kids had that as their first big game. That's just cruel.

Sonic 06 should exist as a horrifying reminder about how bad things can get if you let it.

Not that I think Sonic Team learned their lesson... Sonic Boom was twice as good, but that just means it's a 2/100 game instead of a 1/100 game.

That's the issue with Sonic games, really. They are a very mixed bag. Sometimes they are good, but sometimes they are complete crap.

Contrast with Mario games, which are mostly fun to play.

Yeah. I'll mention a thousand times that the Sonic franchise has included some of my favorite gaming moments of all time and most of my worst.

I for one enjoyed the first couple of original classic Megadrive games.

Amazing Sonic Games: Anything on the Genesis, Adventure 2, Mania, RUSH HELL YEAH, Battle, Heroes, Advance Trilogy.

Horrifically disappointing Sonic games: Forces, 4, Chronicles, Adventure 1, Most of the others I guess.

Sonic games that made me want to rip off my fingernails: 06, Boom, Shadow the Hedgehog, Black Knight.

Others may dispute this list. They are wrong. I am right.

Forget the bad...reminding yourself of the bad constantly loses its impact after a while.

It's not nearly as effective for the people who made it as it is for newbs.