The Gun Thread

EDIT: NVM, misread that you meant the gun not Agent Tanya. My first thought was an M249 SAW, but I'll defer to someone else with more familitarity.

Edited by megarockman on Feb 25th 2021 at 10:50:28 AM

Marq: That looks like an M-60 machine gun.

De Marquis: It's a better balanced and made design. The Piston system helps it function more smoothly as well. Basically, it's a more refined AR design.

Garcon: No, it wasn't that at all. It was never about actually replacing the Squad Automatic Weapon at all. Not only was the M-249 kept in place with the Corps, it still is in the exact same role, the initial roll out once the Corps began more notable acquisition put the M-27 immediately into the hands of the frontline units in place of the M-4 and M-16/A4. It suspiciously found its way into the hands of general infantry troopers and decidedly non-SAW gunner personnel.

The epitome of actual usage is this picture.◊ That is a radioman with an M-27, not a SAW gunner and A-Gunner. And no the Corps does not turn its radio men into squad automatic gunners, not even the Armored Recon monkeys.

In fact, it was uncovered a while back that on paper was one thing but the disposition of the M-27 and M-249 was left entirely up to the discretion of the unit commander with a "wink wink, nod nod" unspoken usage being laid out. Magically the SAW's stayed with their units and the general infantry were very soon seen with it instead. No units were found to have divested themselves of the M-249 from their inventories. Another big clue was the initial acquisition numbers did not match up with the SAW system numbers but magically fit the numbers of certain infantry combat units. Once they got the rubber stamp on funding the order numbers jumped up in less than a few months to almost triple the initial order well above what was needed for just the M-249 replacements. For mechanized ops, they do tend to leave the SAW behind because its bulk and weight make it clumsy getting and out but it's still there for general infantry use.

To add to it the Corps was still in programs alongside the Army as far back as 2008 to replace the SAW, which is still very much in use at the time the M-27 is supposed to have been used as an "optional replacement" for the SAW. The USMC is still alongside the Army in the future NGSW platforms which is what is coming out of the LSAT program started back in 2004.

They want to replace the SAW but the actual reality was it was never going to be the M-27. Part of why the Corps has it was they shared the burden of cost with the US army.

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Feb 25th 2021 at 10:19:54 AM

I know, I'm the one who said it was a stealth M4 replacement in the first place <.<.

The Corp juat happened to discover by happy accident that it makes a good RPK in addition to it's real role.

No, they really didn't. It quite simply is not being used in that role. Especially when everyone in the squad is packing the same weapon with the same optics unless they are toting around the DMR variant.

I heard they used an FN Minimi for filming with Tanya in RA2 there...

But like thats the third diffrent gun named here, and its less based off visual identification and more what was said they filmed with...

Edited by Imca on Feb 25th 2021 at 10:20:28 AM

I guarantee that is not the FN Mini/M-249. It's too long and the muzzle is wrong. You get a somewhat decent view as it is first picked up then as she handles it.

The only way it's an FN anything is the M-240.

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Feb 25th 2021 at 1:02:10 PM

...Isn't that an ECM pack, not a radio though? Specifically the Thor-III pack meant to neutralise remote-detonated IEDs?

So they acquired it under the guise of using it as a light support weapon, and ended up using it to replace the M-4? LOL.

It's what they had to do due to how much the govermment fights replacing the m4.

All the programs fail not because the guns are worse, but because imposoble goals are set specificly to rig it.

The Army's going to change it anyway. What a joke.

Deadbeat: I think you might be right. I thought the IED jammer of choice had two baton-like antennae and was smaller. I still wouldn't want to carry it. They are never quite as light as they are advertised and you have a giant arrow saying you are carrying something valuable.

The army wanted it gone for a while too, hence the half dozen replacement programs.

It was colt and politicians.

Colt is gone now though soo...

So are we suddenly going to see a bid to make the CZ Bren the new army rifle?

The discussion on the previous page about a carbine vs a full-length rifle with a 16.5" barrel is tempting me to go on another one of my tangents about linguistic drift, especially when you bring up things like the Lee-Enfield Jungle Carbine, with it's notably short 18" barrel, derived from the Lee-Enfield No. 4 with it's 25-inch barrel. It weighed 7 pounds unloaded.

A carbine is a rifle that is considered "light" and "handy". But what is considered light and handy changes over time.

A carbine variant of a rifle is usually one that has a shorter barrel and maybe a lightened body and other compacted features.

Yeah, but shorter than what is considered normal at that time. This changes, making the term inherently relative.

It is a pretty straightforward description. A shorter and often lighter variation of the parent weapon. It isn't describing weapons that replace the previous generation but a variation on a general design.

TIL about the Colt CK901, one of the few dedicated 7.62x39mm ARs to be actually sold to a military buyer (in this case Yemen.) Real interesting article.

When playing Ghost Recon Wildlands, I first tended to go cyclic when things got loud, and kept my AK-47 on semi for sniping with a CompM4. It was exciting to return burst after burst, but then I noticed I wasn't hitting as much as I should.

Then I kept my weapon on semi when things got loud. Discovered I could fire the trigger real fast on semi too. Suddenly I was clearing out entire bases and dropping sicarios like never before. It's gotten to the point where I don't use auto fire anymore because I can fight just as well and more accurately by simply clicking like crazy.

I guess that's why actual soldiers are expected to keep their weapons on semi, and why the Rangers were told to never fire their M16A2s on burst unless they had a damn good reason.

Pretty much. Short controlled bursts are good out to about 200-300 meters at best. Anything past that unless your using a mounted weapon, makes semi-auto friend.

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Mar 31st 2021 at 5:46:04 AM

Air Force has us fire on burst for part of our marksmanship training, but even then the goal is to hit the man-sized target an uncomfortably-close distance away (and not to hit the ceiling of the shooting range at all). I get the distinct impression we only get that portion of the training course because they don't want to teach us how to use bayonets.

For a more familiar platform to the users here, I ran on an M4A1 for two subsequent playthroughs, with the same results. Now there's a well-liked in-game option to give the M4A1 the old M4's trigger, as the M4A1 burns through ammo fast when cyclic. You go mag dump, you'll be needing to reload in a half second. I ended up only using the burst against enemy helicopters, as in CQC there was that notorious delay in the burst trigger, and the way Wildlands works, enemies on full alert get more bullet-resistant (which IMO is garbage.) Took two bursts to down a trooper who had me pinned instead of just one. Ended up settling for just clicking fast and emptying up to five rounds into the enemy on semi.

IRL, of course, one burst of 5.56mm will kill a human target anyway.

Relevant, here's a French paratrooper trying out the M4A1. The G33 + red dot setup is real popular these days.

I played the hell out of Wildlands with a friend. I preferred to run the Mk-17 and whatever else I needed as a secondary. The game is a bit weird with its rule sets but controlled burst at short range works great. I used a single shot on the Mk-17 as a DMR type weapon.

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Mar 31st 2021 at 9:01:14 AM

I really ought to try the Mk-17 sometime.