How can this trope be tidied up?: Dead Horse Genre

This page looks like a mess. It doesn't appear to me as though some editors have given due consideration to whether or not a genre is indeed a dead horse, and the Exceptions sections just come across as desperate justifications for why a given troper's favourite band can't be part of the proscribed genre (which really falls into the same trap as music critics described at the top of the page).

Now, it's an article I enjoy reading, but does anybody else think this is an issue? If so, how could it be cleaned up?

This article is awful. It's essentially "bash music genre here", and as you said, the "exceptions" are just "defend your favorite band here". It's not a trope of any kind, and the name is a Bad Snowclone of Dead Horse Trope. I'd say just cut it if it didn't have 3,946 inbounds.

...Actually, even with that information, I still want to cut it.

According to the Laconic version, it's meant to be "Acceptable Musical Targets".

Oh, dear. I enjoy reading this page (I even added the "Ska Punk" section, though I now see I might have been better not to do so) but the more I read it, the more problems become apparent.

For example, the trope description suggests that it's genres music critics hate on principle. This is fair enough; I think that such a list could be determined, and there are reasonable exceptions. However, I don't think it allows for the Critical Dissonance trope; just because critics hate it doesn't mean you need to add an extended list of bands you like that you don't want to be part of "a genre everybody hates".

Huh, somehow I got the strange idea that this would be a mainly-video game trope.

Anyway, I can see why the reason why someone made this page (I for one hate all rap music on sight, despite never listening to it). Definitely needs a clean-up though. Don't know if the exceptions are really needed.

I propose not limiting it to music, and renaming it to something like Pet Peeve Genre, as it's more like Pet-Peeve Trope than Dead Horse Trope.

Well, if we can't cut this because of the inbounds, then I suggest cutting the examples. We do not need examples for Complaining About Genres You Don't Like, followed by a bunch of "but my favorite band doesn't count!" entries.

I think that qualifying each section with a brief mention of "Bands like X, Y and Z" would suffice; I think that's more or less the way it is at the moment. Aside from that, it may be a good idea to cut the exceptions and include a disclaimer of sort in the trope description explaining that these are genres that music critics either hate on principle (which is actually in the trope description at the moment, if I'm not much mistaken) or is regarded poorly by "discerning" audiences (alluded to in the section on manufactured bands).

Another issue is that there are a few examples with very little in the way of description, most pertinently in regards to why they're a dead horse. I could add something but I'm not knowledgable about every genre listed on the page.

For one thing, this page needs to be put under YMMV.

I think it shows up with an orange YMMV bullet when it's listed on trope pages.

Supporting an Example Sectionectomy. Words cannot describe how much I loathe these "negative opinion held by most people" pages. They just have "Opinion Myopia" written all over them.

Here's a page-action crowner. Feel free to add options as you see fit.

In regards to the "Rename Dead Horse Genre" option, if that course of action was taken, I would like to propose the Laconic summary as an alternative: "Acceptable Musical Targets". That way, it would be possible to regulate the excesses of the page in the same manner that I assume the other "Acceptable Targets" pages are (I say assume, because I've not really been on those pages myself).

To qualify the "Cut Exceptions only" crowner I added, I think it would be a good idea to include a disclaimer reminding readers that they don't have to try and justify how their favourite bands aren't really in the Dead Horse Genre; they can enjoy Arena Rock or Nu Metal or Smooth Jazz as they please, and this list summarises genres which the popular and critical consensus suggests are dead horses.

Or something like that.

Looking at the crowner, it appears that one thing we'll definitely be doing is making this YMMV.

I can't imagine why we'd want to rename it, since Dead Horse Genre is pretty much a dead-on description.

But I'm definitely in favor of cutting the examples, since I'm looking through them now and just cringing repeatedly.

edited 25th Jan '12 12:15:29 PM by troacctid

Oh yeah, chainsaw the examples. Most of them don't even make sense - that list looks more like a list of "no longer as popular as they once were" items than anything else.

As for why video games aren't really listed on there... let's put it this way, how many video game genres actually have died? 2D platformer games came closest to disappearing... and yet, they're still being churned out.

I would be in favor of cutting this page, mainly because the idea seems to be already covered by Deader Than Disco, and the of the music entries on that page are very similar to the one on this page. In fact, what do you all think of the idea of redirecting this page to Deader Than Disco? Should I add that to the crowner?

I added the option mentioned in the above post to the crowner.

Personally I don't see why it's just for music, seems like it could be applied to all mediums.

Add that to the crowner.

I wasn't sure if that was a reasonable idea or not, but somebody else has.

EDIT: If it were to happen there wouldn't be much (or anything) that differs it from Deader Than Disco.

edited 2nd Feb '12 8:06:53 AM by Jicragg

"I wasn't sure if that was a reasonable idea or not, but somebody else has."

That was a goof. I meant to write "Added that to the crowner."

Wow, this page is horrible. From the title, it sounds like it's a general term for genres that aren't used anymore, but the page itself is just about music?

The worst part in my eyes are the "Exceptions" examples. Edit War ahoy right there.

At the very least, it appears we have a very strong consensus to make it YMMV, so that's a start.

edited 18th Feb '12 12:38:46 PM by Firebert

Crowner called.

Added Dead Horse Genre to YMMV