A thread to discuss electric vehicles and hybrid technology. No politics, please.
Technology, commercial aspects and marketing are all on-topic.
- Companies (e.g. Tesla Inc.) are only on-topic when discussing their electric vehicle products and research, not their wider activities. The exception is when those wider activities directly impact (or are impacted by) their other business areas - e.g. if electric vehicle development is cut back due to losses in another part of the business.
- Technology that's not directly related to electric vehicles (e.g. general battery research) is off-topic unless you're discussing how it might be used for vehicles.
- If we're talking about individuals here, that should only be because they've said or done something directly relevant to the topic. Specifically, posts about Tesla do not automatically need to mention Elon Musk. And Musk's views, politics and personal life are firmly off-topic unless you can somehow show that they're relevant to electric cars.
Also, posting this late, so sorry for any misspellings I might have left in there.
(Mod edited to replace original post)
Edited by Mrph1 on Mar 29th 2024 at 4:14:39 PM
Lost in Space
Police are starting to actively look for Teslas parked in the vicinity of crime scenes.
Why? Not because Teslas are suspected of crimes, although if you give the AI long enough...
No, it's because of Sentry Mode. It's becoming a regular occurrence now for Teslas to record criminal activity and for their owners to give the footage to police to help them investigate.
I wonder if this will have a deterrent factor.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
Well, remember what people tend to do to police drones
🔥
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Disasturbator
The Tesla tattletale!
New theme music also a box
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
Snitches get stitches
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Lost in Space
It's not a joke. We've seen documented cases of hostility and outright vandalism directed at Tesla vehicles when people noticed that Sentry Mode was engaged. I wouldn't be surprised if these become more common, although as more and more automakers copy the idea and the ubiquity of always-on vehicle surveillance increases, patterns of criminal activity will also change.
What are they going to do, trash every car near the crime scene?
Edited by Fighteer on Mar 15th 2021 at 10:36:54 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Disasturbator
> What are they going to do, trash every car near the crime scene?
If it means not spending the rest of their lives in the slammer then yes,probabably.
New theme music also a box
Lost in Space
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's a good point. A Google search turns up a lot of opinion pieces but no legal cases that I can immediately find.
This isn't even about Sentry Mode. For self-driving cars to function at all, they must be constantly imaging their surroundings with radar, lidar, and/or cameras, and that data must be transmitted to a server to train the AI systems. The GDPR seems to be largely incompatible with these uses.
Frankly, European regulations are indiscriminately crushing certain forms of technological innovation. There needs to be a middle ground, not an absolute NO thrown in the way.
The cars that can send out alerts when they are vandalized, telling police that a crime is being committed and exactly where it's happening?
I feel like we could move this to the Privacy and Surveillance thread, as it's not specifically about electric vehicles... I put it here because it's mainly Teslas that are doing it.
Edited by Fighteer on Mar 15th 2021 at 10:45:58 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Disasturbator
No one said criminals were very bright,wrecking cars anyway because they assume they're all in sentry mode feels something they'd resort to
New theme music also a box
And all future criminals would continue to smash every car in the vicinity after the first or second time one gets caught and chucked into prison on charges of destruction of property on top of whatever they were originally doing?
Edited by megarockman on Mar 15th 2021 at 10:48:03 AM
Oh, bother.
And it's not like a lot of criminals bother to take the time to smash visible security cameras or anything.
They'll just continue to do the Boring, but Practical method of covering their faces.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Lost in Space
Surveillance can do many other useful things besides identify faces, such as pinpoint the exact time of the incident, how many people were involved, etc.
Teslarati: Tesla closes in on direct EV sales in Texas with proposed bill
It looks like Texas may finally be casting off the yoke of mandatory dealerships... at least a little bit. A newly introduced bill carves out an exception to dealer laws by allowing direct sales exclusively for electric vehicles and where the "line-make" has never been sold in the state through a dealer.
Besides Tesla, other EV startups would become eligible for direct sales, such as Lucid and Rivian. Ford might not make it with its Mach-E since it's been sold through dealers.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lost in Space
(Cross-posted with the general automotive thread)
Teslarati: Audi is halting its development of new internal combustion engines
In a recent interview with German media, Audi CEO Markus Duesmann said that the company will cease developing internal combustion engines in response to new European regulations. It will continue to sell its existing technology, but the writing is on the wall for Audi IC vehicles.
Edited by Fighteer on Mar 17th 2021 at 5:02:20 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lost in Space
Teslarati: Rivian’s electric Amazon Delivery Van starts deliveries in San Francisco as testing continues
It looks like Rivian has begun deliveries of its Amazon van in San Francisco, which joins Los Angeles in receiving the first vehicles. Amazon has invested heavily in Rivian and pledged to purchase 100,000 delivery vans from the EV startup.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Volvo's going online soon for all its electric cars, but I hear Peugeot, Toyota and KIA at least want to retain dealers.
Porsche and Ferrari aren't likely to go the mobility route anyway, for them Status Quo Is God of being luxury and deviating from that's an Audience-Alienating Premise.
Lost in Space
I didn't save the tweet but Ferrari has apparently given up on beating electric vehicles on top speed and acceleration and now wants to go for "handling". Apparently someone forgot to tell Ferrari that electric cars with structural battery packs have an extremely low center of gravity as well as a low polar moment of inertia, giving them exceptional handling.
And if you miss the roar, you can have the speakers play the sound of a Ferrari engine.
Edited by Fighteer on Mar 18th 2021 at 6:03:00 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lost in Space
From Tesmanian: Tesla & Other EV Makers Win Right to Directly Sell Their Vehicles in Connecticut, SB 127 Bill Passes
In another win for electric vehicles, Connecticut has passed a bill allowing direct sales of EVs as long as the maker doesn't also contract with any third-party dealers and exclusively sells its own vehicles. The bill was strongly opposed by dealer associations, who seem to think that customers like working with them... somehow.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I wonder if we'll see an electric Ford Fiesta and Focus in 2025, based on this story, they'll be PHEV until then, probably.
Tesla is not much use for people who want something the size of a Corolla or Civic, but would it fit their brand to offer this?
Edited by Merseyuser1 on Mar 25th 2021 at 3:20:04 PM
Lost in Space
Tesla is reportedly in the process of designing a compact electric vehicle in the Chinese market, targeting a price point of 25,000 USD. This would be sold in China first and then expand to the rest of the world.
The main obstacle isn't technology: Tesla can certainly build these cars. It's battery supply. The total amount of battery manufacturing on a global level is finite. If you have access to 100 GWh of batteries annually (hypothetically), you have to choose how to divide those up amongst all the different products you're trying to sell. This means you could build a million cars with 100 kWh batteries or two million cars with 50 kWh batteries, or some mix of them.
If you can sell all of those 100 kWh cars and they command a higher profit margin than the 50 kWh ones, then it's more effective to do the former, especially if you're turning all of the profits into expansion.
So the question isn't whether Tesla could enter the compact EV market; it's whether there's any value to the company in doing so at this moment.
It is very likely that any such cars that Ford would sell would be at a very low margin if not a loss, drawing on their operating cash from ICE vehicles to build market share.
Edited by Fighteer on Mar 25th 2021 at 12:03:35 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lost in Space
Teslarati: Tesla Semi to make 15-vehicle debut with PepsiCo. later this year
So it seems like the first deliveries of the Tesla Semi will be to PepsiCo by Q4 2021. This implies that the Texas Gigafactory will be open and running, although we do know that prototypes of the Semi have been built at Fremont, so that may be the initial source of production.
The 15 Semi tractors will join 60 other vehicles at PepsiCo's Modesto, CA plant that all run on electricity or natural gas.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lost in Space
Automotive News: VW to brand EVs 'Voltswagen' in U.S., source confirms
I cannot make this up, folks. The branding will not roll up to the parent company, thankfully. The 'Voltswagen of America' name is "not an April Fool's joke", according to the source. The fact that someone had to ask...
Edit: It was a stunt after all. OMG, VW, are you going to hire clowns now?
Edited by Fighteer on Mar 31st 2021 at 7:06:10 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lost in Space
Tesla has released its Q1 2021 production and delivery numbers. Significantly beating most estimates, production was 180,338 and deliveries 184,800. This includes Model S/X production at zero because of the Plaid refresh.
It's effectively double the Q1 2020 numbers and points at ~750K for the year, although this doesn't take into account that Q1 is typically the slowest quarter for Tesla. 1M deliveries is very likely in reach.
Edited by Fighteer on Apr 2nd 2021 at 9:06:33 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Who Am I?
Biden’s Push for Electric Cars: $174 Billion, 10 Years and a Bit of Luck: "The president is hoping to make electric vehicles more affordable to turn a niche product into one with mass appeal."
The $2 trillion infrastructure plan that he unveiled on Wednesday is aimed at tackling climate change in part by spending up to $174 billion to encourage Americans to switch to cars and trucks that run on electricity, not gasoline or diesel. That is a large investment but it might not be enough to push most Americans toward E.V.s.
Despite rapid growth in recent years, electric vehicles remain a niche product, making up just 2 percent of the new car market and 1 percent of all cars, sport-utility vehicles, vans and pickup trucks on the road. They have been slow to take off in large part because they can cost up to $10,000 more than similar conventional cars and trucks. Charging E.V.s is also more difficult and slower than simply refilling the tank at far more prevalent gas stations.
Mr. Biden hopes to address many of those challenges through federal largess. He aims to lower the cost of electric vehicles by offering individuals, businesses and governments tax credits, rebates and other incentives. To address the chicken-and-egg problem of getting people to try a new technology before it is widely accepted, he hopes to build half a million chargers by 2030 so people will feel confident that they won’t be stranded when they run out of juice. And he is offering help to automakers to get them to build electric vehicles and batteries in the United States.
“We find ourselves at a unique moment here where most American businesses and many states are looking toward a decarbonized future, but recognize there’s a big lift on the infrastructure side,” said Bob Perciasepe, president of the Center for Climate and Energy Solutions, an environmental research group. “This investment alone obviously won’t solve the climate problem or fix all of the infrastructure in the United States but it will be a huge boost.”
Automakers see the writing on the wall and many, including General Motors, Volkswagen and Ford Motor, have made big E.V. promises. But even they acknowledge that they will need federal help.
“This transformation is greater than any one policy, branch or level of government, or industry sector,” a group representing manufacturers, suppliers and automotive workers said in a letter to Mr. Biden on Monday. “It will require a sustained holistic approach with a broad range of legislative and regulatory policies rooted in economic, social, environmental and cultural realities.”
The letter called for grants, loans, tax credits and tax deductions to promote research and manufacturing. The authors of the letter, which included industry groups and the United Auto Workers union, called for investment in job training programs and federal help in promoting development of minerals and other raw materials in the United States.
But production is only one piece of the puzzle. The transition away from gas-powered vehicles rests on convincing consumers of the benefits of electric vehicles. That hasn’t been easy because the cars have higher sticker prices even though researchers say that they cost less to own. Electricity is cheaper on a per mile basis than gasoline, and E.V.s require less routine maintenance — there is no oil to change — than combustion-engine cars.
The single biggest cost of an electric car comes from the battery, which can run about $15,000 for a midsize sedan. That cost has been dropping and is widely expected to keep falling thanks to manufacturing improvements and technical advancements. But some scholars believe that a major technological breakthrough will be required to make electric cars much, much cheaper.
“There’s a good sense that at least for the next maybe five years or so they’re going to keep declining, but then are they going to level off or are they going to keep declining?” Joshua Linn, a professor at the University of Maryland and a senior fellow with Resources for the Future, an environmental nonprofit, said about battery costs. “That won’t be enough, so then that’s given rise to a lot of attention to infrastructure.”
The federal government and some states already offer tax credits and other incentives for the purchase of electric cars. But the main such federal incentive — a $7,500 tax credit for the purchase of new electric cars — begins to phase out for cars once an automaker has sold 200,000 E.V.s. Buyers of Tesla and G.M. electric cars, for example, no longer qualify for that tax credit but buyers of Ford and Volkswagen electric cars do.
Mr. Biden described his incentives for electric car purchases as rebates available at the “point of sale,” presumably meaning at dealerships or while ordering cars online. But the administration has not released details about how big those rebates will be and which vehicles they would apply to.
Another big concern is charging. People with dedicated parking spots typically charge their E.V.s overnight at home, but many people who live in apartments or have to drive longer distances need to use public charging stations, which are still greatly outnumbered by gas stations.
“The top three reasons consumers give for not buying E.V.s are lack of charging stations, time to charge, and the cost of E.V.s,” said Sam Abuelsamid, an analyst at Guidehouse Insights. “They seem to be really emphasizing all three. So, over all, it looks very promising.”
There are well over 100,000 gas stations in the United States, most with multiple pumps. Mr. Biden’s plan calls for a national network of 500,000 electric vehicle chargers within the decade, up from about 41,000 charging stations with more than 100,000 outlets today, according to the Energy Department.
“One of the things that needs to be addressed is getting chargers into places where people only have on-street parking, like in cities and urban areas where you don’t have a driveway or garage,” Mr. Abuelsamid said. “If they can address that, it will make E.V.s available to a lot more people.”
The government in China, which leads the world in the use of electric cars, has done much more than the United States to speed up the installation of chargers.
“It is, famously, one of the ways that China has become the No. 1 country in E.V.s on most dimensions,” John Paul Mac Duffie, a professor of management at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, said in an email.
Even with incentives for manufacturers, a robust charging network and a willing public, the transition to electric cars may take a few decades. Carmakers have improved vehicle reliability in recent years, so many cars stay on the road a long time. The average age of cars and light trucks in the United States is approaching 12 years, up from 9.6 years in 2002, according to IHS Markit, an economic forecasting firm.
Neal E. Boudette contributed reporting.
Lost in Space
Okay, that article isn't too bad. I was worried it would completely ignore Tesla, but it does bring up that incentives for it and GM have fallen off. I would love to get a $10K point-of-sale rebate for buying an EV. I have a garage, so I can charge it at home, and I would be able to afford it given these factors, so that would be more than enough. For other people, not so much.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
That's a pretty bad photo, 4/10.
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