Redundant Descriptions - Van In Black and: Spies In A Van

Spies In a Van

Van in Black

What's the distinction here, besides that one is focused on the vehicle and the other on the occupants?

In Van in Black, you see the van from the suveillee's point of view, in the background as this mysterious thing that might be spying on them, or it might just be a figment of their imagination.

In Spies In a Van, you see the van from the inside.

At least that was my understanding.

edited 22nd Aug '11 10:30:42 AM by FrodoGoofballCoTV

Huh that is an odd distinction there... The tropes could at least state that they are POV opposites... They share a lot of examples too.

Yeah, we could definately use some work on the descriptions. I'll look into it.

EDIT: So I'm thinking maybe we should do a crowner, but I'm not sure that we're ready to start it yet:

Possible options:

1) Merge: Keep Van in Black. Cut Spies In a Van. Expand Van in Black to include the van seen from either the point of view of those inside, or those outside.

2) Split: Revise the description of both tropes to make the distinction clear, and check examples for trimming.

3) Take a Third Option.

edited 22nd Aug '11 10:53:29 AM by FrodoGoofballCoTV

There is now a page action crowner here which includes the options that Frodo Goofball Co TV suggested. Feel free to add examples as you wish or tell me if it is too early for a crowner.

I like the Spies In a Van trope as it is and I think its trope description is a lot clearer than Van in Black's. That is why I would like to move most of Spies In a Van's description if there is a merge. I also think that Van in Black as it is now tends to invite quite a bit of examples that just say "character W uses a black van," so at the very least I would like to see it expanded.

It looks like we're headed for a fairly decisive result, but I'd like to see more votes before we close this.

Calling in favor of:

Revise the description of both tropes to make the distinction clear, and check examples for trimming.

Roger that. I'll overhaul Spies In a Van tonight if I have time.

Alright, I've changed the description for Spies In a Van. If that looks good, I'll take a look at Van in Black.

Frodo Goofball Co TV,

I think you did a fine job with the new description for Spies In a Van. It seems to me like it is a good mix of being entertaining and explaining the trope and how it is different from Van in Black.

edited 6th Dec '11 3:19:05 PM by LouieW

^Thanks. I went ahead and made a smaller change to Van in Black. Are we ready to close this one, or are there any remaining concerns?

Good. Very good, right on the money IMO. I dropped a bit of setup from the front — if we're saying it: by implication, important enough.

Remaining issue would be the jump in person from the first paragraph to the second. I'm no great fan of the "you" school of trope prose. I would have just made it all relate to 'the hero' but it ended up looking a bit lifeless.

Part of the issue with this article is that it started life as primarily the observation that the MIB drive black vans. It's good we're turning it into a more general and useful trope. With this new and improved definition the wicks might need some work.

I dropped the last jokey bit about white vans — introducing child molesters at the last minute seemed more distracting than it was worth.

edited 7th Dec '11 5:41:31 AM by Camacan

Well, maybe that's not so bad:

The heroes have Seen It A Million Times — that large, menacing black van pulling over on the other side of the street the moment they go inside. Some will dismiss it as a paranoid speculation, just as The Man wanted them to. But a Genre Savvy protagonist will at least know what it means — They are watching, at this very moment from that very spot. If Lampshaded there will be a honkin' big radar dish on top.

And then the third paragraph could be:

If They are not just watching, but about to kick someone's ass, then the black van will often be replaced by a black Chevrolet Suburban with tinted windows.

I'll be "away from keyboard" for the next several hours for medical reasons, and I'll check back then.

edited 7th Dec '11 7:43:38 AM by FrodoGoofballCoTV

Is there anything more to be done?

Not as far as I can tell. Probably this should be closed.

Locking then.