Marvel Cinematic Universe

I know—but I was specifically answering the suggestion that it would lead to more origins and a lack of follow-ups.

(I'll also note that team-up series would arguably allow for more follow-ups in fewer shows. That hypothetical Kamala-Kate team-up series would allow them to follow up two shows with one, for example.)

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on May 10th 2024 at 10:28:06 AM

I wouldn't mind the cameo aspect of the Multiverse if it wasn't most of what the concept was used for.

After reading The Garden of Forking Paths by Jorge Luis Borges, I too have become somewhat cynical at how much wasted potential Marvel has with the Multiverse.

I love reappearances from old characters, sure, but exploring the idea of many worlds and how it can affect your choices and the choices of others is really neat. EEAAO understood that assignment, even if it went a bit overboard at times.

The multiverse "Cameos" made one of the most successful films ever.

MoM already took it's shot as using the multiverse as a 'there but for the grace of god go I' with the evil and non-evil-but-reckless alti-Stranges.

I don't know what people want other than nebulous 'just be better' here.

I liked NWH, MOM, and Loki for the most part. What If? was inconsistent but that’s the nature of the show. Quantumania was a miss but 3.5/5 isn’t too bad.

I suppose there’s the feeling of less coherence? Which is not the same thing as actually having less coherence, to be clear. Only 2 of the 5 (Loki and Quantamania) feel like they’re building up to something in particular. And Quantumania didn’t seem to impress enough for Kang’s first real outing.

Edited by CheapMarzipan on May 10th 2024 at 5:46:45 AM

Because he lost. I'm still a little bitter about that.

I've heard why this isn't a problem, and just like pro-wrestling, you can reheat a heel very quickly by just pushing them hard later, but I still don't get it.

Like, if I'm getting this right. No one Kang is supposed to be this big threat, the problem is there are thousands of him? or something? Oh boy, a villain who's dangerous just because he has numbers.

Edited by GNinja on May 10th 2024 at 11:06:32 AM

Except that isn't that different from Thanos' army of aliens. If all those supposesly more dangerous variants die easy that makes Kang a punk. I think that might be why they are possibly changing that.

Edited by Mizerous on May 10th 2024 at 7:09:09 AM

Thanos also made an impact with his personal power by thrashing Hulk and Thor, among other things once he stepped into the board himself.

Are we going to have the "Kang lost to Ant-Man" argument yet again?

Like, exile Kang is the weakest Kang with the least resources who was just trying to escape and they barely beat him.

The implication is the next ones they meet will be tougher.

Edited by dcutter2 on May 10th 2024 at 12:13:59 PM

I'd say the bigger issue is reducing Kang to just a generic badguy without his more impressive schemes or machinations.

Like losing aside he doesn't come across as particularly impressive, so any future variants have to do a lot to make up for how boring he was.

@G Ninja I mostly agree but I guess it’s hard balancing things when your big bad gets active early on.

Nominally, I think the idea is that the Council of Kangs were the one who beat and exiled Quantumania-Kang already, so he was just a precursor to the real threat. But it doesn’t really help that that after credit scene was so goofy. Didn’t sell the menace at all.

Funnily enough, I think they already sold it near-perfectly with HWR earlier on, and he was just sitting in a chair talking about this stuff. I could probably buy the hype if the Avengers were fighting HWR in Kang Dynasty.

Edited by CheapMarzipan on May 10th 2024 at 6:18:04 AM

The thing with Kang in Quantumania is that Kang himself had already lost even before he duked it out with Ant-Man personally. They'd already ruined his plans. It was like a Last Villain Stand thing.

On the one hand, yes Kang's weaker moments had legitimate explanations (he had been cut off from his tech and those were super ants zerg rushing him and they didn't even actually beat him), but on the other hand, losing at all is still not a good showing for his first movie.

Then why sell the council as the real threat? It seems confusing to have a group suddenly attacking if the "dangerous" one was beaten by one or two Avengers. Not to memtion we are still in the dark about Kang's real goal other than multiverse rule I guess? Do the council seek destruction? Rebuilding reality itself?

Edited by Mizerous on May 10th 2024 at 7:27:37 AM

Tbf I'm pretty sure the council stuff goes nowhere now with the Kang stuff being phased out.

I admit I'm truly confused why they went the council route. Audiences prefer one big powerful Charismatic villain over a bunch of easily beaten ones. So why do this....????

I guess to replicate Endgame with the Avengers fighting disposable Kangs mooks but that's been like the climax of a lot of these films. Huge army seige battle with a possible one on one fight before the ending. Only this time it would be "infinite" Kangs to fight.

Who says audiences prefer that? Who says the Kangs would be easy to beat?

Who says we're going to get Kang mooks?

Like the council scene is a fun, viseral, and easy to grasp demonstration on the multiverse concept?

Edited by dcutter2 on May 10th 2024 at 12:35:12 PM

.... Didn't it be get mocked online.

Why do you think we have stuff like conservation of ninjitsu. You can't make interesting stories with hordes of random simialor bad guys.

Maybe they wanted to go with a Contrasting Sequel Antagonist.

I think you can have a villain who starts relatively weak, but becomes climactic over time. Kefka from FF 6 is a good example. From Nobody to Nightmare is a trope for a reason. But that's not really how they went with Kang. From what I can see, the gimmick with him was supposed to be "If this is how cool X is, imagine how cool Y will be"

"If this is how dangerous the "good" Kang is, imagine how dangerous the evil ones are."

"If this is how cool the "weak" Kang is, imagine how cool the strong ones are"

And I dunno, it just didn't gel with me. You can't tell me to imagine, because I'll imagine more than you will end up showing.

Edited by GNinja on May 10th 2024 at 11:40:27 AM

Look at the Chitari for example. In the comics they had like shapeshifting powers and stuff, but the MCU made them weak enough that even Black Widow and Hawkeye could dispose of several. If they follow that formula characters like Shang Chi or America Chavez beating Kang#345 or #567 won't be that special. It would be more like a Warriors game.

Edited by Mizerous on May 10th 2024 at 7:40:37 AM

They also gave the Chituari a face in herr kleiser as evil army is just not that interesting on its own.

Edgy Skrulls

Weren't they made by Mark Millar to be 1610's Skrulls? Plus, 1610 and Millar are infamously edgy.

Again, what's with the assumption that we're going to see vast numbers of Kangs just mobbing 616 verse or something?

The Ultimate Avengers movies had some really alien designs for them