Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Jan 13th 2020 at 7:47:56 PM

[up] If Kraven's strength/reflexes are boosted to a level where he's at least in the same ballpark as spidey (which would be in keeping with his comics incarnation), then it doesn't really matter if he can't score a hit with a bow and arrow.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Jan 13th 2020 at 8:36:30 PM

Black Widow special look

alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
Jan 13th 2020 at 8:44:18 PM

A better look at Taskmaster, nice.

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Jan 13th 2020 at 8:50:18 PM

[up][up][up] I was a little confused at first because I thought you were replying to my post and was pretty sure I was replying to the actual text of the post on the previous page.

That being said, overall the inherent problem with power level debates is that they have to assume that both individuals have full access to their abilities and are fighting in a more or less even playing field. And that's basically never how confrontations in the movies actually work.

Take Iron Man and Thanos for example. By power levels Iron Man has zero chance against Thanos with all 5 Infinity Stones. But no one in a "power level" debate would of considered the possibility that Thanos wouldn't be using the original Infinity Gauntlet but a Stark-tech facsimile of the gauntlet which Iron Man could easily extract the stones from with his suit.

...and yet here we are.

Jan 13th 2020 at 9:35:59 PM

It's interesting, because we still don't know what Taskmaster is doing. No "we have to save Russia!" or anything, like how Ant-Man and the Wasp's trailers played at claiming Ghost would try to destroy the world or something. He's still a mysterious agent.

Which, given that it's a spy movie and is almost certainly going to have a twist, could mean he's less the Big Bad, more a Wild Card.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
Jan 13th 2020 at 9:48:15 PM

They did show that someone was training a new group of Red Room girls. So I assume that Taskmaster is trying to kill off all of the old members of the Red Room, including Natasha, Yelena, and Melina.

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
slimcoder Insane Religious Murderbot
Insane Religious Murderbot
Jan 13th 2020 at 9:52:14 PM

I hope Tasky survives this.

Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt. Oh and Primus hates you.
Jan 13th 2020 at 9:52:40 PM

Likewise.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Nightwire Humans inferior. Ultron superior. Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Humans inferior. Ultron superior.
Jan 13th 2020 at 10:12:38 PM

I want Taskmaster and Deadpool to be in a movie together.

Bite my shiny Vibranium ass, Avengers.
RavenWilder Raven Wilder
Raven Wilder
Jan 13th 2020 at 11:25:57 PM

EDIT: Wrong thread.

Edited by RavenWilder on Jan 13th 2020 at 11:26:48 AM

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
C105 Too old for this from France Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
Jan 14th 2020 at 1:11:01 AM

I wonder if one of the Red Room "sisters" of Nat's will survive the movie and fill Black Widow's role in the MCU.

Concerning the power levels debate, the MCU is not much better than the comics, where a character can win or lose against the same character depending on what the story requires. Then again, you can always argue that psychology plays a part in a fight (it really does), and that a character may be more or less effective in combat depending on their emotional state at the moment (they are not sure they are doing the right thing, they just had a row with their Love Interest, they underestimated their adversary...).

Still, I'm always bothered when a non-enhanced human (like Stark without armour, Romanoff or Barton) gets tossed around like a ragdoll by a superpowered one, says "ow" and gets back up.

Whatever your favourite story is, there is always a vocal majority of the fandom who considers it Worst Story Ever.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany
Foreign Troper
Jan 14th 2020 at 3:12:37 AM

Power Levels are tools. They can't be applied consistently, that much is clear, just for the fact alone that multiple writers are handling the comics and films.

The point where it gets annoying is when a characters power / skill set varies within the same story from panel to panel / scene to scene, in my opinion at least. There has to be some basic level of consistency.

Belief Makes You Stupid indeed.
Jan 14th 2020 at 7:45:28 AM

Speaking of consistency

—Spiderman in Civil War:He is able to fight against Bucky and Falcon at the same time, but loses when is taken by surprise by Falcon's pet.

—Spiderman in Homecoming: He is stomped by Shocker (Basically Bucky) and Vulture (Basically Falcon)

—Spiderman in Far From Home: He can dodge the shots of hundreds of drones, many of which may become invisible.

—Spiderman in a hypotetic third movie: He has trouble dodging arrows and poisoned darts.


Speaking of inconsistency, it still amazes me that Corvus could fight Captain America (and would have won if it wasn't for Vision), but is fodderized by Okoye.

It is as if the writers could not decide whether Corvus is strong or fodder.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jan 14th 2020 at 7:51:12 AM

PushoverMediaCritic Now my Spirit Ball is on autopilot! from the Italy of America Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Now my Spirit Ball is on autopilot!
Jan 14th 2020 at 7:58:39 AM

I think you're using the terms "stomped" and "fodderized" too liberally, there. I don't think those terms apply to those situations.

My JoJo Part 5 fighting game idea.
C105 Too old for this from France Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
Jan 14th 2020 at 8:02:33 AM

About Spiderman, one thing that could explain the discrepancies in Civil War was that nobody wanted to seriously hurt the opposition (even more so if they realised he was just a kid), and that he was a new and unknown quantity. His power level seem to subsequently increase rather logically as he progresses (along with the fact that he wears more and more high-tech suits).

Then there is the element of surprise - I like to think that Falcon lost against Ant Man because that was the first time he was fighting against someone with that powerset.

On the other hand, I agree that the power levels of the various characters in Infinity War and Endgame seem to vary from one scene to another. Vision in particular seems to have turned into a punching bag for most of Infinity War.

Whatever your favourite story is, there is always a vocal majority of the fandom who considers it Worst Story Ever.
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Jan 14th 2020 at 8:04:32 AM

Corvus Glaive's spear disrupts Vision's structure and weakens him massively. That's how they justify him being a punching bag, when his powerset could make a lot of the fights trivial. Who Would Win in any comic book story is answered by: who the writers want/need to win. Power levels are irrelevant.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 14th 2020 at 11:05:19 AM

TV Tropes Changelog -- keep track of updates to the site!
Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Jan 14th 2020 at 8:05:20 AM

Yeah before any fights even happen he suffers a pretty bad wound. He's worf had the flu'd the whole movie.

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
Jan 14th 2020 at 8:30:10 AM

—Spiderman in Homecoming: He is stomped by Shocker (Basically Bucky) and Vulture (Basically Falcon)
Amazing. Everything about this sentence is wrong.

—Spiderman in a hypotetic third movie: He has trouble dodging arrows and poisoned darts.
Wow, I'm glad you can see into the future.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 14th 2020 at 8:32:37 AM

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
Ultimatum ◕ ◡ ◕ Disasturbator from England Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
◕ ◡ ◕ Disasturbator
Jan 14th 2020 at 8:33:32 AM

Really big arrows and darts,like comically large

dont click | don't click here either
PushoverMediaCritic Now my Spirit Ball is on autopilot! from the Italy of America Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
Now my Spirit Ball is on autopilot!
Jan 14th 2020 at 8:33:33 AM

Since I already addressed the "stomped" part, might as well address the other two elephants in the room: Shocker and Vulture present a much greater threat level than Bucky and Falcon (albeit in different ways). Shocker may be just a dude, but the shock-wave gauntlets pack a MUCH heavier punch than Bucky's metal arm, and Vulture's wings are like four times bigger than Falcon's and he has mechanical talons.

My JoJo Part 5 fighting game idea.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany
Foreign Troper
Jan 14th 2020 at 8:35:00 AM

Yeah, this Vulture is basically Falcon ON STEROIDS.

Belief Makes You Stupid indeed.
alliterator How dare you? from Southern California Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
How dare you?
Jan 14th 2020 at 8:35:37 AM

Plus, both were actually trying to kill Spider-Man, rather than Bucky and Falcon, who definitely weren't.

"What, you think I won't fight a dinosaur? Are you crazy? All I want to do is fight dinosaurs." — Squirrel Girl
C105 Too old for this from France Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
Jan 14th 2020 at 8:35:38 AM

I feel a bit bad about Vision because he actually had exactly one movie to shine - and even then he appeared only during the third act. He's rather easily countered in Civil War (and provides the one case of friendly fire in the whole fight), then Worfed and Fridged in Infinity War. I kinda hope the Wanda Vision series will give him better occasions to shine through.

Edited by C105 on Jan 14th 2020 at 5:38:14 PM

Whatever your favourite story is, there is always a vocal majority of the fandom who considers it Worst Story Ever.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany
Foreign Troper
Jan 14th 2020 at 8:37:10 AM

Maybe we won't even get this Vision back, but the Jonas version.

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 14th 2020 at 5:39:25 PM

Belief Makes You Stupid indeed.

Total posts: 114,771
Top

How well does it match the trope?

Example of:

/

Media sources:

/

Report